Google Speech-to-Text API Automatic Transcription (Chirp). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00that India is not on the UN security council when a US vassal like
00:00:04Britain can veto resolutions amist billions feeling the price pain
00:00:08from the straight of
00:00:22There'll be no Putin at the UN general assembly but his friends Shijin Ping and
00:00:26of Modi will be in the USA. Shijin Ping said to be Trump on
00:00:30Thursday and he does so when for the first time in around 150 years China
00:00:33has a bigger economy than the USA by PPP. Did
00:00:37Trump see Modi hold hands with Iran's president at the Bricks
00:00:41meeting in Delhi, will Trump tell him off or is India like
00:00:45of China just too powerful now to order around and what role does
00:00:49a diminish Western Europe have to play? Now
00:00:52it has been all but bankrupted by its financial backing for corrupt Kiev.
00:00:56We're still
00:00:56in a world where a USA
00:00:58in is in elite are mired in epst. carnage can openly assassinate or kidnap world
00:01:02leaders at will, but who has
00:01:03of the courage to do anything about it? from New Delhi to New York, the question is no
00:01:07longer now who has the most power, but who gets to
00:01:29talking about the UN. general assembly, I mean, do you think it has been
00:01:32weakened
00:01:33of in some ways, given
00:01:35of that we had the Delhi bricks summit,
00:01:38and I think you've said that
00:01:40of any U.S. China conflict would lead to the
00:01:44of end
00:01:44of the UN. Yes, I mean, the decline
00:01:48of the UN has been one
00:01:49of the saddest spectacles, I think uh, over the past
00:01:53generation, and that has really very much
00:01:56of been the work of Washington, um, both under
00:02:00above all under republican, but also under democratic administrations, which really
00:02:04have set out to to cripple and sideline the UN,
00:02:07because of course the UN is one place
00:02:11that the US cannot fully control, it can
00:02:15veto, uh, but
00:02:19a of um,
00:02:20of you know, repeatedly on the subject of Israel, most notably, you have had huge majorities in the
00:02:23general assembly,
00:02:25you know, voting against the US, the US has been, and Israel have been almost completely
00:02:29isolated. 'um, obviously the United Nations
00:02:33um has opposed series
00:02:35of of American military operations -
00:02:39and um so I think
00:02:40you know Washington set out to render the UN
00:02:44irrelevant um and has to a great extent
00:02:47succeeded, though I must say even so I'm surprised for
00:02:51example by how completely absent uh Gutierres, the
00:02:54present
00:02:55of UN of sec secretary general has been from the Ukraine
00:02:59conflict'. where I think there was a possibility
00:03:02of the UN playing very useful role, which it is
00:03:06not even tried to do. Yeah, I think um, I mean he did
00:03:10condemn uh for what it was worth the uh attacks on
00:03:14Iran by the Trump Netanyahu coalition,
00:03:17but I suppose it didn't really matter much either
00:03:21way. Interesting that India want to place on the security
00:03:24council and there has been at last some kind of India,
00:03:28China reproshm. that we witnessed in
00:03:32in Delhi, well, I mean, that is the only
00:03:35path for India to membership
00:03:38of the UN Security Council is if China would
00:03:42drop its
00:03:43in objections, because I don't think you would see the Americans, the British, the French,
00:03:46of all the
00:03:47of Russians of course, um, opposing it, it is China that is the big
00:03:51problem uh, and there yes, I
00:03:54mean, above all due to the
00:03:58um, the US Israel's attack on Iran and its
00:04:01consequences uh for India and for Asia in general and
00:04:05we certainly do, as
00:04:06of as the Brick Summit demonstrated see a considerable warming of relations
00:04:10between India and China, um, but there is still
00:04:14this damnable issue
00:04:15of of the contested frontier or frontiers in the
00:04:19Himalayas, um, and if that can't
00:04:21of be solved and it given present positions it looks
00:04:25insoluble, there will always
00:04:27a be a kind of...
00:04:30is India you know ultimate barrier to full
00:04:33cooperation between China and India and it's in the interest
00:04:35of the United States to stoke that off, I mean there no false
00:04:38flags, but I mean no evidence
00:04:41of any false flags,
00:04:42but you
00:04:43of certainly uh the people
00:04:44of the CIA would be thinking would be nice if India and China are fighting
00:04:48there, certainly, but
00:04:50then
00:04:53of again um you know obviously I mean one
00:04:58in of the reasons is why moving towards China is that under Trump um the... US and Israel, you Israel
00:05:02also
00:05:03of having become a close partner of Narendra Modi's
00:05:06India, have shown total contempt for Indian
00:05:10interests, Indians have always. to me that secure
00:05:14energy exports from the Gulf and including from
00:05:17Iran are vital interest of India
00:05:21because of India's dependence on these imports. There is
00:05:25no evidence that Trump and Netanyahu when they launched this war paid
00:05:29a second's notice. I mean not just the interest of India of course
00:05:33the interests of um anywhere else either - but
00:05:36clearly I mean for Delhi to have been treated with such
00:05:39ostentatious contempt. by Washington and Tel
00:05:43Aviv is going to have consequences for Indian behavior and attitudes. Do
00:05:47you think the uh Trump administration even understand the
00:05:51importance to India of Chabaha port in Iran, which has been
00:05:54bombedd, uh, they're repairing it as far as I
00:05:58understand it, but you believe that - that will further improve relations
00:06:01between India and uh uh, well India and
00:06:05Iran, let alone India,
00:06:13"I mean, I, I didn't suppose
00:06:15Trump never
00:06:18heard of, the ignorance of Trump and some of his
00:06:21top people, Hegset and company, simply cannot be
00:06:24exaggerated, and the rest the American establishment
00:06:28either just salutes and falls into line,
00:06:31um, or is so tied to Israeli
00:06:35interests that they don't give a damn, I mean,
00:06:38you know, what this has demonstrated is that..."
00:06:43um and this by the way is not as true of India, it's true of Europe, it's true of
00:06:46Britain, um, compared to Israel,
00:06:50other country is in the end of much
00:06:54serious concern to a large part the Washington
00:06:57establishment, that is beginning to change because Israel has
00:07:01made itself so unpopular, especially it's beginning to change in the
00:07:05Democratic party, but it hasn't changed at the top the
00:07:08Republican party yet, there are Republican dissidents like...
00:07:12Carlson, yes, but not the um, not the the
00:07:16Republican mainstream, yeah, people can watch our interview Carlson
00:07:20on going underground, negotiations of course are off the
00:07:23table as regards uh
00:07:26Ukraine, Russia appears
00:07:28to be saying, so India importing Russian energy at
00:07:32record levels, the the US sanction threat, I
00:07:36mean it doesn't matter what the United States threaten about sanctions, it doesn't matter at
00:07:40all, um, Europe of course and... "um, I don't know
00:07:44how long they they can cope uh without Russian energy.
00:07:47Well, and of course Trump - had to beg the Ukrainians
00:07:51to stop attacking Russian diesel production uh,
00:07:55because um, diesel prices in the United States are
00:07:59are surging, um, and it's when of course
00:08:02Americans start to suffer uh, from an international
00:08:06crisis that the American government begins to pay notice,
00:08:10and clearly this could have a..." critical effect in losing the
00:08:14republicans the um the mid-term congressional elections
00:08:17in November. Uh, I mean, an
00:08:21interesting question is whether the Europeans
00:08:24will go on or intensifys of
00:08:28Russians, Russia's so-called shadow fleet.
00:08:32Um, they would of course be insane to do so with the
00:08:36given what's happening in the Gulf and now the Red Sea, and
00:08:39the threats. I mean, they are secretly embording Russian oil. these
00:08:43western European powers and of course they are, and there's just been an an
00:08:47exception for for Greece to be allowed to transport Russian oil. I
00:08:50mean, there there is utter hypocrisy in the European
00:08:54position, um, and therefore I think that
00:08:58probably the seizures the the shadow fleet will remain
00:09:02um symbolic, uh, I certainly
00:09:05hope so, because I mean there have been some very blood curdling Russian threats of how Russia
00:09:09will respond if um if these seisures
00:09:12continue. yeah, having said that, Russia didn't really
00:09:16respond to many the provocations. do you
00:09:20think the Russian leadership think
00:09:24that that's what those western European powers
00:09:27desire them, therefore they're not going to give it to them? uh, because
00:09:31time and time again, we haven't seen the Russian response
00:09:34that, well, many in Russia
00:09:37increasingly opposed Putin want
00:09:41to happen. Yes, I mean, well, I
00:09:44mean, what is clear is that Putin is not aiming
00:09:48at and really does not want a direct
00:09:51clash with the west. I mean,
00:09:54these threats blustering by Russia have been
00:09:58intended to deter the west from or NATO
00:10:02from intervening in in Ukraine, they haven't been, the prelue to a Russian
00:10:06attack on on
00:10:08NATO. Um, but there is always the the...
00:10:12of course um of some disastrous
00:10:16accident,
00:10:19um, the Russians, I think,
00:10:23may have... assuming it wasn't
00:10:26a Ukrainian false flag operation um you fired a
00:10:30missile a train in in Ukraine that
00:10:34wasn't carrying youstern representatives
00:10:38so as to send a message or warning uh
00:10:41but missiles go astray and for example I
00:10:45mean the other way around Russians have said to
00:10:48me you remember what happened on the first day the US attack on
00:10:52Iran it wasn't intentional. but a misdirected
00:10:56US missile hit a school and killed what was
00:11:00it 120 school children? Russians say if a
00:11:04Ukrainian missile, especially one guided
00:11:07by western intelligence goes astray and hits a
00:11:11school in Moscow or Petersburg, Putin would have no
00:11:15choice politically but to react directly um against
00:11:18NATO, and then of course we are a, well then
00:11:22we're
00:11:23in we're a game run by von. and kaya callas i
00:11:26understand you've said the EU should get rid them, oh
00:11:30absolutely, no, I mean Callis in particular is
00:11:33nightmare, and you see the problem is, if you go to
00:11:37European foreign ministries, as I have, they will say to
00:11:40you, don't worry, yes we know Callis is mad,
00:11:44Calis hates the Russians, but she doesn't represent our foreign
00:11:48policy, she doesn't represent French or German or even British, well
00:11:52obviously Britain's not in the EU, "we are much more more
00:11:56sensible, all right, but how do you
00:12:00expect the Russians to know that when the you know
00:12:03the foreign policy representative the European Union is saying
00:12:07all these insane things, um, Russians will pay
00:12:11attention, and there's no prospect of it yet, so we can just
00:12:15expect as we move into winter
00:12:18even
00:12:20more uh, even more war like talk and um and lower gas
00:12:23reserves than in in. Europe is Europe declines in the new
00:12:27order? Well, yes and of course terrible
00:12:31winter for ordinary, ordinary Ukrainians, which is
00:12:34why Putin is willing to go on
00:12:37fighting until next
00:12:40year, in the hope obviously of gaining the whole the
00:12:43Donbas, which he thinks he needs to be able to declare victory,
00:12:47but also just so that Ukraine
00:12:50is so weaken that it will make deal on Russia's
00:12:53terms. you always have to
00:12:57remember that barring a complete Ukraine collapse, which
00:13:01doesn't look likely, um, whatever Russia gets out of this war
00:13:04will be far, far less than what Putin was
00:13:08aiming at when he launched the war, he was planning to turn the whole of
00:13:12Ukraine into a Russian pliant state, that simply isn't going to
00:13:15happen, um, the second, the plan B was to
00:13:18annex huge areas the east and south of Ukraine, that hasn't
00:13:22happened, and in my view is very unlikely. to happen,
00:13:26so if Ukraine can come out
00:13:28of this war with 75% of its
00:13:30territory, um, minus areas that were never really
00:13:34part of Ukraine anyway, um, ethnically
00:13:38speaking, and the possibility of joining the
00:13:42European Union and with a strongly consolidated
00:13:46national spirit, then despite all the
00:13:50terrible suffering that Ukraine has experienced, that I think historically will
00:13:54still be seen, a Ukrainian
00:13:56victory, professor Leven, we'll continue after the
00:14:00break, keep watching, new
00:14:01order,
00:14:16there was a time indeed when we were quite accustomed
00:14:20to having half the globe dance to our
00:14:22tune.
00:15:15you're watching new order, professor leven you is saying that
00:15:18ucraine
00:15:19could uh
00:15:20forge some kind of victory despite all the odds uh any
00:15:23settlement? But isn't the point that Putin didn't really want
00:15:27all the land of Ukraine, he wanted and
00:15:31realized that there has to be new order, the title of
00:15:35this very show, and the... entire global
00:15:39south, global east has changed
00:15:43after 2022, and that's really the
00:15:46prize, the end of US Germany, well
00:15:50Russia cannot end US Germany its own, it's
00:15:54not remotely
00:15:59no, I mean, well, but that's it,
00:16:01you know, often been said about the Chinese, and the Chinese say
00:16:05themselves in private, we don't need. do anything, trump is
00:16:08is doing a wonderful job of destroying you know
00:16:12America's global position without us having to do anything, which is
00:16:16why
00:16:17you know the um one reason why the Chinese are pursuing such very
00:16:21cautious and and prudent
00:16:31you were in China uh, earlier this year,
00:16:35I mean, is it your understanding? China are supplying weapons to
00:16:39Iran at the moment, they they are supplying
00:16:43certain kinds of technology, although they obviously in public they
00:16:47deny it, but um they are
00:16:50not supplying large quantities of actual weapons, no as
00:16:54far as I can see, and as one Chinese
00:16:57interlocutor said to me, you
00:17:00know, we're not allies of of Iran despite what many
00:17:04Americans say, and America should be very... grateful that we're
00:17:08not, because if we were allies of Iran a large part the American navy would be at
00:17:12the bottom the Indian Ocean by now. um, just as if we were
00:17:16allies of Russia, Russia would have won the war in Ukraine, because
00:17:20real Chinese military supplies, look, I mean, America
00:17:23has exhausted its um, it its stocks of
00:17:27anti of air defense systems, just by fighting the
00:17:31the Iranians, imagine if the Chinese came in as well with really
00:17:35large scale supplies, 'the American position would be
00:17:39impossible, of course the Chinese really don't want to do that because they
00:17:43understand the terrible risks involved, and I think
00:17:46also they well certainly if you read the Chinese media, they believe that
00:17:50um history is on their side, time is on their side, the west
00:17:53is declining pretty steeply now, and it
00:17:59you're saying it's caution, and of course, one could equally say the same about
00:18:03India uh, that it's playing cautious game while being in the quad, but at the same time
00:18:07backing chabarad in Iran and um continuing to support
00:18:11the war on uh against uh NATO through
00:18:15Ukraine by buying Russian oil, but China's bond holdings
00:18:19of US treasuries, which is the big news all around the world
00:18:22as NATO nation economies arguably collapse. It
00:18:26is shocking how uh they have declined
00:18:29the uh the way China has uh
00:18:33not buying us debt anymore and um obviously. it
00:18:37has to be very careful onwinding it, but it really is uh
00:18:41increasing the uh averting itself from the dollar
00:18:45system. well, after what happened to Russian
00:18:48holdings uh in the west
00:18:51uh, a country which thinks it might get into a
00:18:55deep crisis with America would be insane to keep most of its foreign
00:18:59holdings in in dollars that could be seized by America
00:19:02obviously, I mean not just China, other countries also are gradually
00:19:06drawing it down. too fast of course, because
00:19:10to really draw them down quickly would risk collapsing first the US
00:19:13economy and then the world economy as a whole, but the
00:19:17general trend is very clear, so a sense
00:19:21that's that may well be the kill
00:19:24switch, some might say, mean in the past few days brazil's top
00:19:28diplomats also almarim, ally of
00:19:31louler, i have spoken to in the past d has been very critical
00:19:35obviously of us policy but has to be equally. is been
00:19:38talking with Wangi this week, there was some Brazil, China,
00:19:42friends for peace, Ukraine initiative,
00:19:46um, clear that China has benefited from the
00:19:49proxy war in Russia through Ukraine in many
00:19:53ways, uh, well, discounted Russian
00:19:56eil of course, yes, to a
00:20:00degree, and Russia has become more dependent on China, but
00:20:04then of course on the other hand, um, well... 'Chinese did
00:20:08not expect the Iran war top
00:20:10of that uh, but in the first place of course, China is still
00:20:14dependent on global energy imports and anything that
00:20:17seriously disrupts that is a threat to China. Although around the
00:20:21time you were in China, professor, was when they were increasing
00:20:25stocks massively
00:20:36but now you see according to latest news, the Chinese stocks are beginning to
00:20:40run out, and that is bad news not just for
00:20:43China, but really
00:20:45for for all the Asian economies, because it has been the the Chinese
00:20:49release. these reserves, which to a great extent has
00:20:53compensated the whole of Asia for the the the loss
00:20:56of oil from the Persian Gulf.
00:21:00If China if Chinese reserves run out
00:21:03completely, then the economic
00:21:07consequences could be dire, and of course an interesting question
00:21:11to which I don't have the answer is at that point will China try to become
00:21:14much much more directly involved in in the
00:21:18Middle East and basic.
00:21:24or else, um, what or else would be, I don't
00:21:28know, but I wonder just how long China can afford, or India for
00:21:32that matter, can afford for this war to go on,
00:21:39the war on Iran, has have bricks powers,
00:21:43Shanghai cooperation organization powers successfully
00:21:46used the war in Europe, as best
00:21:50they could to destroy Washington consensus power or could they
00:21:54have uh done a bit more faster um I mean
00:21:58hopefully the war in Europe may be coming to an end in the next 12
00:22:02months have they done as best as they could or could they have done better as
00:22:06regards dedollarization trade ties throwing the
00:22:10IMF and World Bank out as such well I don't
00:22:13think I
00:22:14mean a lot of countries like India um but
00:22:17even Brazil um or I think
00:22:21even China to a degree do not want to
00:22:24destroy uh America's you know power,
00:22:28certainly not quickly, certainly not avowedly, certainly not
00:22:32avowedly as was made clear, but I think it's,
00:22:36I mean, I was at the Bricks academic council
00:22:40um last year, and
00:22:41there was a clear division there between uh, Russia,
00:22:45China and South Africa on the one hand,
00:22:49much... anti-american and India and Brazil on the other much
00:22:53more, well India much much less anti-American and
00:22:57Brazil sort of trying to say how right everybody was and maintain
00:23:01a a middle position in fairness to Lula, he had been in
00:23:04prison, yes, now India has shifted
00:23:08undoubtedly as result the Iran war, but I would still
00:23:12describe Indian policy as more like a phrase that
00:23:16you very often hear from
00:23:18the former soviet republics in central Asia. which is a
00:23:21multi-vector policy, in other words,
00:23:24you know, we are not going to, well, they they mean,
00:23:28we are we're not going to simply go with with Russia, but equally, we are not going
00:23:32to commit ourselves to the United States, we want,
00:23:35to keep open relations with with
00:23:39everybody, and I think for the moment, um, that
00:23:43is what most the global south wishes, yeah,
00:23:47the problem is lot of people are going to think that's very naive, because... wants
00:23:51a choice, it doesn't give, it doesn't, it doesn't give nations that
00:23:55choice, oh absolutely, but the question now is is
00:23:58Washington, in the past, Washington could simply have thumped the table and
00:24:02ordered them to submit, but is Washington powerful enough
00:24:05to do that anymore, I don't think so, um, you know, obviously China
00:24:09is now much bigger economic player outside the
00:24:13financial area in Asia than the United States
00:24:17is, so um, America's
00:24:19power to... coers people is just much less, but on the other
00:24:23hand, I think the Indians are still worry that if
00:24:27they really push both to weaken the US and to
00:24:31institutionalize bricks, at the
00:24:33moment, China is still so much more powerful
00:24:37that this will be a Chinese dominated bricks, possibly a
00:24:41Chinese dominated world, that is something that the Indians still worry
00:24:45about, that is why, as they have told me, they they are not
00:24:49going to commit themselves. completely certainly not to the US, but not
00:24:52to an anti-US position either. the ghosts of divide and
00:24:56rule, imperial dividen rule kind of alive when it comes
00:25:00to
00:25:08and France are going to be on the United Nations security council? let
00:25:11alone whether India will be on it, um, can
00:25:15they remain on the UN security council for much longer? well, i
00:25:19think they're can remain on the UN security
00:25:23council forever um the question is whether the united
00:25:26whether the UN itself and the security council will mean
00:25:30anything 50 years from now let alone a
00:25:33hundred I mean I was remember the the the mogal
00:25:37emperor long long after he he had become
00:25:41bas basically an old-age pensioner the British was
00:25:45still issuing ferman's orders
00:25:48appointing king and governors across
00:25:51India, total nonsense of course, but nobody wanted to tell the
00:25:55poor fellow that it was all over, so yes
00:25:59they can still sit there, but it won't mean
00:26:23on X, old pretender has asked, are the US and European markets broke and maxed out
00:26:27on debt? we've been talking for years about US debt and it didn't really matter because
00:26:31everyone recycled the dollar, the way the dollar system works, 40
00:26:35trillion US de to gdp ratio of 125%,
00:26:38it does matter now, that's why Trump is going, we need AI, I don't care whether
00:26:42AI means armaged and AI is used by Yemen to attack Saudi Arabia, we
00:26:46need AI, because otherwise the whole the United States is going to uh
00:26:50self-combust, if you look at Europe, Greece, Italy, France,
00:26:53Spain, all debt ratios that are higher than what they produce, so in others
00:26:57they are essentially bankrupt, it hasn't mattered before,
00:27:01but after... 2022 in Ukraine, it does matter because it's
00:27:05bricks and the new order, the new order will not allow
00:27:09countries to run debts like
00:27:11this, 2022, because Tonka has asked,
00:27:15what happens
00:27:16the sanctions become increasingly frequent? sanctions, I presume Tomka
00:27:20means U.S. sanctions nation sanctions, it doesn't
00:27:24matter to India, clearly, India says, we don't care about sanctions on
00:27:28Russian energy, as we said on this program before, 38 million have been
00:27:31killed. in 152 countries around the world by
00:27:35Americans sanctions between 1971 and 2021, according to the
00:27:39lancert, I think the global south now remembers the slaughter
00:27:42caused by United States sanctions, NATO nation sanctions, they don't care
00:27:46anymore
00:27:54Champing says, if Trump is leaving Nato, but American troops aren't leaving Europe,
00:27:57does that make the American occupation official?
00:28:00You as point. It's difficult to remember how many
00:28:04troops are in western Europe, thousands and thousands of
00:28:08troops - just recently in RAF Laken Heathh in
00:28:11Suffock in Britain, the United States just transferred 20
00:28:14B61-12 tactical nuclear uh weapons,
00:28:18um, zero response from Russia. Why does Europe
00:28:22allow all his US occupying powers? Because Europe has never, since
00:28:251945 being independent, its arts institutions, its
00:28:29universities, its schools, its entire. societies of
00:28:33western Europe have been vassals that have been condemned to
00:28:36be part the military industrial complex, thank you for those
00:28:40answers oftion, we'll be back with more next week, thanks sir,
00:28:44and follow us on x at new order_tv to ask your questions, we'll be
00:28:48back with another look at the people, countries and ideas shaping what comes next for India and its
00:28:52partners, see you next
00:28:53Sunday.
00:29:5310 parties competing for the support of more than 100
00:29:57million voters, in the race for
00:30:01450 seats. Who will
00:30:04fail and who will
00:30:06prevail?
00:30:19The Russian capital comes under heavy Ukrainian drone attack
00:30:23overnight ahead the third and final day of nation-wide
00:30:26elections. Two people are killed in the Moscow region while residential
00:30:30building and an oil refinery.
00:30:32hit and that
00:30:36is my vote, one of tens of millions being
00:30:40cast around the donbas, but with every vote cast in the
00:30:44donbas, the people the donbas
00:30:47show that those threats don't scare
00:30:50them. Russian citizens go to the polls all across the
00:30:54country, even in areas facing daily shelling and threats from
00:30:58Kiev.