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00:00:00today with Dimitris Oikonomou and Giannis Titaras
00:00:04daily at 6 am on
00:00:07Skype.
00:00:11Looking for something to cook today?
00:00:13cookout.gr. Feeling hungry? We have
00:07:21Mazonakis, let's go to Eleni Anesiadou to see some news from the Greek
00:07:24countryside, and we start with an unpleasant incident, exactly, let's go
00:07:28to Evia and we take, you don't
00:07:32call it unpleasant, you call this
00:07:36outrageous, you call it, it
00:07:39angers you, what can I say now, exactly and this video
00:07:43was enough to provoke the anger of Christians on social
00:07:46media, so what do we see? We see a rural vehicle which
00:07:49transports, tied to the bed of the rural
00:07:52vehicle, a horse which was injured in its
00:07:56leg, we don't have information yet as to why
00:08:00this particular horse was injured, under what conditions and for what reasons
00:08:03it was transported with the bed, I don't know, let's say that
00:08:07for no reason do
00:08:10you tie a injured animal
00:08:13to the bed of a rural vehicle and drag it, you put it
00:08:16on the rural vehicle, the injured animal and you
00:08:19take it to the doctor, in the civilized world, that's
00:08:23what you do, that's what we know, so
00:08:27we don't know if there's any intervention by the authorities after the d, we will
00:08:30monitor the issue to see what happens from now on, indeed, from there we will
00:08:34go to Volos, where at this moment we are getting images from
00:08:37magnesianews.gr, we see a person, a taxi
00:08:41driver, who is injured, why then, on
00:08:45Friday in Nea Ionia, this taxi driver
00:08:48was there when two people approached
00:08:51him and asked him to use his taxi to take them for a ride, he
00:08:55refused because these people are known for their criminal activity in the
00:08:59area. When the man said that he didn't want to transport them because they
00:09:03wouldn't pay him, then they hit
00:09:05him, causing this fracture.
00:09:08Specifically, the son was a father and a son, the son then took a
00:09:11broomstick. and started hitting him. The specific
00:09:14driver even filed a lawsuit, while at this moment
00:09:18we see that all the taxis are gathered outside the police station in order
00:09:22to express their support to this driver. The
00:09:26broomstick broke the man's arm.
00:09:29Terrifying daily wages in some cases for taxi drivers.
00:09:33Indeed, let's continue. Let's go to Veria and
00:09:37we get an image from veriotis.gr. Fast and furious then in
00:09:40Veria, so what happened. In the morning of Friday, a
00:09:44different bang woke up people because a
00:09:47car landed on a shop window at the entrance of an
00:09:51apartment building, as we can see it was 4 in the morning, fortunately
00:09:55there were no injuries. No one from the airport, exactly, apart from
00:09:59material damages, worse happened at the
00:10:02intersection of Venizelou and Anixeos. Crete, let's go to
00:10:05Crete and let's go to Crete because okay, I think we are
00:10:08used to such images, if I may say so, in Crete and in
00:10:11Votsi. But it shouldn't be, it shouldn't be, it shouldn't be exactly, and this
00:10:15is the dangerous thing, that we have come to terms with these images, if that's
00:10:19possible, every two or three days we get such images, from Crete
00:10:23so we know it's closed.
00:10:28So what's happening here? We see in the circle that there's a vehicle which, despite
00:10:31the fact that the road is closed, chooses to take its bypass
00:10:35and go through the dividers, almost causing
00:10:38a one-way street, and he went through
00:10:41it to leave quickly, not to
00:10:44get in line, my friend, and now, let me
00:10:47go, smarty pants, as Konstantinos says, he's a bit of a gentleman
00:10:50smarty pants, yes, good for him, smarty pants. It's a bit dangerous, and it can
00:10:54cause you serious problems. I say this: this guy is
00:10:58a smarty pants, further down there's no one to tell him to get out
00:11:01now, to take his license, his
00:11:05diploma, his plates. You know what
00:11:07I say? Every time this happens, every time I see something like this and I get angry, we
00:11:11can all be smarty pants, if that's the case, let's all be
00:11:14smarty pants, if there's no punishment for those who are
00:11:17smarty pants, then let's become smarty pants now.
00:11:20First of all, first of all, it's dangerous, there's a reason why it's a one-way street
00:11:24there. Of course, there's no reason, probably
00:11:28road and driving behavior, and let's close
00:11:31with Evia. So here we see a video which
00:11:35was posted by a motorcyclist, a pack
00:11:38of wild boars appears before his eyes in Evia, in
00:11:42here, dangerous, yes, it's dangerous, and it's an area, Evia,
00:11:45where such incidents are really common, and it's also an area, because I've
00:11:49done reports, that has a lot of signs to
00:11:53warn about
00:11:55the however, there was no injury, however, we see that generally the
00:11:59animals are starting to move towards residential areas, so many
00:12:02questions arise, since we burned our forests, my Eleni,
00:12:06we burned our forests, so they are coming down, what
00:12:10else can they do? The aid for the wild animals stopped,
00:12:13some even released them. Thank you very much Eleni, take care Eleni,
00:12:17let's open our topic, the topic, with the
00:12:20tragic death of George Mazonakis under these
00:12:23extremely.
00:12:29who underwent plasmapheresis treatment and this huge discussion has opened up. Good morning to
00:12:32Mrs. Matina Pagoni, she is the president of the Panhellenic Medical Association of
00:12:36Athens and not the Medical Association of Athens because
00:12:39there has been a mistake there. George Mathiopoulos, president of the employees
00:12:43of ekv and Michalis Giannakos, president of POEDIN, to discuss
00:12:46the issue. Of course, good morning to everyone, good morning, good morning,
00:12:50good morning, good morning.
00:12:52καλημέρα.
00:12:57Let's start with the complaint we saw yesterday here on the show and
00:13:01it's worth watching an excerpt for you to comment on
00:13:04as well, where the complainant says that we informed the
00:13:08medical association of Athens and they told us not to worry, it's a legal
00:13:12practice, you don't need to take any action to
00:13:15hear Mrs. Gaga's
00:13:18revelation that my wife has cancer,
00:13:21we entered a commune because Mrs. Gaga's
00:13:25medicines, she had also had a tattoo, a year
00:13:28earlier the cancer markers were not there and I went
00:13:31to Mrs. Gaga, she put me in a
00:13:34machine, they found that I had a blood microbe, she told
00:13:38me that this is very dangerous, it can develop and
00:13:41become something catastrophic for my
00:13:44health, she tells me we have to deal with this
00:13:47immediately, she put me directly on the preparations that
00:13:51came to my office at that time, which were prescribed by someone else.
00:13:55Not by Mrs. Gaga, which I told her, I told her you are not a doctor, why don't
00:13:58you prescribe them to me? And I was saying that my wife had cancer, and now
00:14:02with my blood, I had nothing, nothing, and my
00:14:05wife, I call the medical association and I make a phone
00:14:09complaint, hyphen report, they told me that the
00:14:12practice is perfectly legal, Mrs. Gaga is
00:14:15a doctor, this is what they tell me that we suggest you follow
00:14:19what the doctor told
00:14:20you,
00:14:23now what happened here?
00:14:33So first of all, let's say that this
00:14:36practice is a pathological practice, which means that patients
00:14:40can go there to get a diagnosis from her pathologist
00:14:43husband, because her husband is a pathologist and
00:14:47he was, at least his file at the medical
00:14:50association says he is a pathologist, so he could have seen
00:14:54this patient. and tell him what to do for the tests, up to
00:14:57this point, the fact that he was a pathologist and could see this
00:15:01patient, he could, beyond that, the wrong diagnoses and all the
00:15:04rest, are the doctor's responsibility and
00:15:07of both, even though he is without
00:15:10a diploma, without specialization, excuse me, Mrs. Gaga
00:15:14had a diploma, she could see the patient,
00:15:17but both of them have a great responsibility, because
00:15:21they made mistakes in their cases, what
00:15:24to see and then the man calls to
00:15:28complain that here they upset us, they sent us to the other
00:15:32world and we came back to the main point because they told us that my
00:15:35wife had cancer and it turns out she didn't have cancer and I called to
00:15:39complain to you, this complaint should not
00:15:42have proceeded normally,
00:15:46if it should have proceeded in the
00:15:49sense that the medical association should have checked the
00:15:52pathologist, yes, and should have checked the pathologist,
00:15:55I tell you this: he had a specialty and could
00:15:59see such a case, the medical association should
00:16:03have, you mean to say that the doctor's diagnoses are
00:16:07wrong. Here
00:16:15it
00:16:19is that the complaint was made and no one dealt with it, that's the issue.
00:16:22Here the point is that from then on, this
00:16:26doctor made a wrong diagnosis, both of them, I
00:16:29understood that both made a wrong diagnosis.
00:16:33So it should have been reported
00:16:35personally in addition to the '
00:16:43So we agree that this
00:16:46complaint should have been processed by the medical
00:16:50association. The complainant should have gone to the medical association
00:16:53to provide the information. He called and provided
00:16:56the information he had about the patient, about his
00:17:00wife. The man called and said, and he even says they answered on
00:17:04the phone, "You're right."
00:17:07So further investigation should have been done from then on. He will also
00:17:11go to the police to report them with
00:17:14a lawsuit and with a lawsuit to the police. Yes,
00:17:18yes. Look now, what you're saying, you
00:17:21understand that it's a bit problematic. He called the
00:17:25medical association, complained, and they answered, "Don't worry,"
00:17:29meaning, should we go directly to the prosecutor? "Don't
00:17:31worry" or "You're right" because that's
00:17:35different. Now what are they looking for?
00:18:08of the medical association, when he entered the specific
00:18:11clinic in Karneadou, among other things
00:18:14he noticed, he noticed that in the
00:18:18patients' files there were no
00:18:22tests, before for the
00:18:25treatments they were going to do, none at all. I
00:18:29believe it, because there was nothing for George Mazonakis, the basics for
00:18:33him to have plasmapheresis, no blood tests, no cardiological
00:18:37examination. Nothing at all, the same with the
00:18:40others, exactly, the previous
00:18:43times that the medical association had gone, they hadn't seen
00:18:46patient files and they saw that even the previous times they
00:18:50went, they found patient files who had not had
00:18:54tests before having any treatment, for the first
00:18:57time, I don't know if they asked for files, I can't
00:19:01answer that, because from the committee if they asked for the files,
00:19:04I don't know that and I didn't ask to tell you the truth. Mrs. Pagoni, the issue here
00:19:08is that the medical association can perform but
00:19:12surely to finish a minute though
00:19:15files were not there
00:19:18files were not there because even the cards you showed
00:19:21that went later and did the check
00:19:25showed how long each one had plasmapheresis without
00:19:29the name, you have the cards, only the machine
00:19:32that, exactly that, only how long they did it, nothing else, yes,
00:19:35can I ask again? I apologize, can the medical
00:19:39check, the Athens Medical Association conduct serious checks so that
00:19:43these violations are detected and not checks that say we found
00:19:47nothing, is it possible or not? Let me answer you
00:19:50this: the medical association can conduct checks
00:19:54up to a point, but if this
00:19:58committee is strengthened with a prosecutor and police officers who
00:20:01can break down doors, open drawers, open
00:20:05cupboards, of course they can... proceed in depth,
00:20:09excuse me, Mrs. Pagoni, objection, you go
00:20:12to the practice of a colleague of yours and he doesn't
00:20:15open the door on purpose, because you know you're going to do a check, why
00:20:19don't you, leaving there, go and inform the prosecutor
00:20:23that you know I went to do, that you know I went to do a check
00:20:27and he didn't open the door for me, I
00:20:30understood that he wasn't there and they didn't open the door for them, not that he was
00:20:34there and they didn't open the door for them, that's what I understood.
00:20:54You know why I'm telling you this, and I'm telling you with
00:20:58my hand on my heart, because besides being a woman who has
00:21:01been involved in trade unionism for many years, you are also a doctor. I'm telling
00:21:05you this because a big discussion has started right now about how
00:21:09all this discussion about controls can be done by essentially
00:21:13a trade union this is the discussion not
00:21:16a trade union medical association.
00:21:36You understand what I'm telling you. So I answer
00:21:40you that and I really have no reason to
00:21:44hide this from you
00:21:47that it doesn't matter what kind of trade unionist
00:21:50it is, you should know that he is a doctor and he will not
00:21:54cover up anything when it comes to
00:21:57a patient, you should know that, okay,
00:22:00here we have a death, one more reason, we have
00:22:04a death, we shouldn't be talking about death, we're talking about
00:22:08cases where they went and didn't find anything and didn't see the
00:22:11machines, or now that they went and saw them hidden inside the
00:22:14ozone therapy machine in the cupboard, we're talking about these
00:22:18cases, not about Mazonakis' death, if that's the case.
00:22:26And let me tell you something, we came out and opened the topic and we all
00:22:30informed you, doctors, we started talking about what should have happened
00:22:33and what shouldn't have happened. You should say
00:22:36that a tragic event opened the topic.
00:22:40I hear many people saying that we said it in 2019,
00:22:43we reported it, let's go to
00:22:46Mr. Giannakos because I hear him wanting to intervene for so long. Come, President.
00:22:50Look, here, we're talking about two
00:22:53quacks from Kolonaki, who, regardless of what they
00:22:57studied, whether they had a medical specialty
00:23:00or not,
00:23:03were promoting paramedical rather than
00:23:07medical care,
00:23:09that is, they deliberately
00:23:13lied to patients in order to
00:23:15sell their special
00:23:19preparations. which they promoted
00:23:21for their own benefit and for profit, that's
00:23:25why this mistake happened that you mentioned before, which
00:23:29could have been completely deliberate, because a doctor, Mrs. Pagoni
00:23:33knows, when talking about cancer, should have requested
00:23:36diagnostic tests, CT scans, MRI, the
00:23:40conclusion is not drawn and she should have sent her to a gynecologist, how did the
00:23:43pathologist doctor conclude
00:23:47that she had cancer in her gynecological
00:23:50organs. without a gynecological in the first phase, hematological
00:23:54and then other more specialized tests and she gave her vitamins
00:23:57president so
00:24:00she gave her vitamins to get well, what
00:24:03happens, we must yes
00:24:07this fact worries us and I think
00:24:09it worries Mrs. Pagoni and
00:24:12everyone. How can we
00:24:15prevent such doctors
00:24:18from operating in the future?
00:24:21who discredit the medical profession and generally
00:24:24generally the health professions, how
00:24:27can we increase controls and
00:24:30we must say the following: in
00:24:332019
00:24:36the health ombudsman was abolished and integrated into the national
00:24:39transparency authority. Did this help
00:24:42or not? It didn't help, I'll explain why the body
00:24:46of inspectors. health and welfare services. At that
00:24:50time it had 150 employees, 150
00:24:54inspectors, doctors and other
00:24:57health professionals who conducted preventive and
00:25:00complaint-based inspections and preventive inspections
00:25:04when they saw something on the internet.
00:25:08When they were integrated into the National Transparency Authority, now only
00:25:1143 are left, 44 for
00:25:15Attica and 13 for Thessaloniki, a total of 57.
00:25:18Θεσσαλονίκη, σύνολο 57.
00:25:21And you know what they do? They go and measure
00:25:23tables and chairs, just like they are away from the
00:25:26beach.
00:25:29Here is the health ombudsman, but there are none, they have been
00:25:32integrated, and because they have been
00:25:34integrated,
00:25:36they now deal with any complaint made to the national
00:25:40transparency authority, it's not just for health. So what's the
00:25:43result? We have inadequate
00:25:46checks, the internet is
00:25:50full of such quacks and we can't
00:25:53control them, and at the medical associations
00:25:57yes, when there was a complaint, the cases
00:26:00should have been finalized quickly. I'll tell you about that now, he knows
00:26:04it, come, come, because we have to go to the other guests in
00:26:08five months this pathologist will be out in 5
00:26:11months, he continues to practice, he can practice
00:26:15until it is finalized, you say
00:26:18until yes, Mr. Vasilopoulos, we have
00:26:22heard what you have said about this incident at the clinic of
00:26:25Carneadou. Is this the first time something like this has happened or do you
00:26:29often encounter such incidents?
00:26:32I'm talking like that, not always with
00:26:33plasmapheresis. Do
00:26:37you hear
00:26:39me? Not Mr. Vasilopoulos, Mr.
00:26:42Vasilopoulos.
00:26:46His return has been canceled, Mr. Mathiopoulos, yes, yes,
00:26:49good morning, come, sir, come, I will
00:26:53say why at this moment there is a discussion about
00:26:56doctors, mainly in the private sector and
00:26:59in clinics, because this has happened with
00:27:02this particular clinic. We go to many
00:27:06private clinics
00:27:09where they treat patients very well
00:27:12and either accompany us if it's an emergency or have
00:27:16treated
00:27:18a patient quite well and have given us a transfer note, a
00:27:22note that we leave at the hospital's emergency department. So let's not
00:27:25blame all doctors because we have
00:27:29no intention of doing so. We want to make this clear.
00:27:33This is because we, as employees, came out and
00:27:35criticized the behavior of the two doctors,
00:27:39saying that even though it was about an hour, as proven by
00:27:42experts, this is not sorry, you didn't
00:27:46criticize them, you said exactly what
00:27:49happened, you told them, you told them
00:27:53to accompany the person they
00:27:56picked up from their clinic, and they refused, they said no, this
00:28:00is happening.
00:28:03We complained because some people came out and said that we came out and criticized the two
00:28:06doctors, we said what happened at that
00:28:10moment at the scene, the rescues
00:28:13arrived with the equipment. them, they followed all
00:28:16the steps that are provided and that we constantly do, we do them
00:28:20daily, so it's not the first time we've gone to
00:28:23cardiac arrest, many times and these
00:28:26colleagues, we have done what we need to
00:28:30do and we have revived. Many
00:28:33of our fellow human beings or they are in the street, they are in clinics, they are at
00:28:36home and this is a great joy for the
00:28:40rescuers, when we arrive quickly at a point and
00:28:43we can revive someone who is in cardiac arrest, it's the best for
00:28:47us, there are of course cases where patients
00:28:50don't make it, but if the two
00:28:54doctors had followed this whole procedure, because we all know
00:28:57now and Ms. Pagoni and everyone who works in public
00:29:01hospitals that. there in essence there was, it was a
00:29:04small emergency department, so there were doctors, two, there were nurses, so
00:29:08they could, if they had the necessary equipment, whatever happened in
00:29:12an emergency department hospital, we're not talking about a large one, in a smaller one, they
00:29:15themselves could have revived George
00:29:18Mazonakis, with all these procedures that the
00:29:22protocol must follow, here they had a
00:29:24faulty one, exactly, here
00:29:28the whole development was wrong, from the beginning,
00:29:52the point is that if they had all this necessary equipment there on the spot and
00:29:55they did these actions they need to
00:29:58do, I give many probabilities that George
00:30:02Mazonakis could have recovered, because in essence
00:30:06the forensic examination did not show that he had any problem
00:30:10with his heart or if they did something else, I'm saying now Mr. Matthopoulos
00:30:14if they called the EKAB I'm saying now, faster
00:30:17the first moment is you see the patient
00:30:21you see that he hasn't moved he has had a cardiac arrest the first
00:30:24move is you call EKAB, you immediately
00:30:27inform them that there is a person in cardiac arrest and you start
00:30:30cardiopulmonary resuscitation. If you do this from the first
00:30:34minutes surely
00:30:37he can recover and it has happened many times for the patient
00:30:40to recover, anyway, in these clinics we saw what was not happening, but
00:30:44other things were happening that are extremely interesting,
00:30:46is that one such thing did not accompany, wait a minute Mr.
00:30:50shamanic medicine, quantum medicine,
00:30:53holistic medicine, various kinds of therapies
00:30:56that's why we have invited Mr. Nikos Papadimitriou, the general
00:31:00secretary of the Union of Greek Physicists. because at some point classical
00:31:04medicine ends.