Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00about
00:00:01role, which should be at tomorrow's questions. Don't shy away from
00:00:04the truth, and don't compromise on
00:00:12support. In of this and alleviates the burden boldness. The Third Republic visions and a voice in which everyone participates
00:00:16on Syria TV.
00:00:21insurance. Is the state withdrawing even from this
00:00:25groups who cannot
00:00:28the cost of this
00:00:33Thank you for this introduction and this
00:00:46means not
00:01:03clear statement by President Ahmed Al-Shara in
00:01:10state intervention in this
00:01:22I mean, by the end of 2027, the camps must be at zero. and viewers. Thank you for In post-Assad Syria, the economic challenge
00:01:26and deserves this today from this today is not limited to
00:01:28discussion. It deserves this economic model that is put forward in addressing the legacy of years of war and economic collapse, but extends to redefining the role of the state
00:01:31and its relationship with the citizen. The move towards a
00:01:34market economy and reducing subsidies opens
00:01:37a discussion that goes beyond figures and financial budgets
00:01:40to seek who
00:01:42seized from bears the cost of this transformation if
00:01:46and fundamental, is that this the state withdraws from providing
00:01:47pattern of thinking in support to vulnerable groups and contents itself
00:01:50with regulating the market. Today, Syrians stand
00:01:53from the head of authority in Syria, before questions that need answers: Where does
00:01:56the state's responsibility end and the market begin? And how
00:02:0070% of the GDP was from does the state deal with essential services that cannot
00:02:03be left to market rules? In our discussions this evening, viewers,
00:02:07we will discuss government support.
00:02:10Is it a social right
00:02:13or an economic burden? Who bears the cost of economic
00:02:17reform? And what should not be fully subjected
00:02:20to market logic?
00:02:23of borrowing was stated For more details, viewers, our colleague Bilal Al-Bizri will be with us
00:02:27in the following video.
00:02:33heightened some of the anger in In a country ravaged by war and economic crises, the rise in prices and reduction in subsidies,
00:02:38can alleviate weak wages, and services cannot be seen as
00:02:41mere economic figures, but rather
00:02:44in as social and political issues that affect citizens' ability to
00:02:47live. The issue of support is no longer just a financial
00:02:51file or an item in the general budget, but has
00:02:54become part of redefining the state's relationship
00:02:59I mean, or will interfere or affect with the citizen. The government, which faces an economy
00:03:02burdened after years of war, believes that
00:03:06various conferences, will affect continuing subsidies in their old form consumes
00:03:08its limited resources, while economic experts believe that
00:03:12the solution is to redesign subsidies
00:03:14rather than abolish them, which would alleviate the burden
00:03:17on the budget without transferring the cost of reform to the weakest
00:03:21segments
00:03:23criticism means that you are of society. The goal of subsidies is to protect the most
00:03:26vulnerable groups, and it may increase
00:03:30social injustice if the state errs in identifying
00:03:32beneficiaries. Subsidies
00:03:35The youth took to must be directed to low-income
00:03:38a flaw in understanding the state's role households, children and the elderly,
00:03:41and the poorest areas.
00:03:46am happy to be a guest on Equality does not mean justice. For the rich and the poor to receive the same
00:03:50support may seem equal, but the effect of this
00:03:54support is not
00:03:55prices will affect fair. Social if you ask me on justice means
00:03:58directing support to protect those who can bear the rise in
00:04:01prices, but it poses another
00:04:05economic role initially requires challenge, which is how the state determines
00:04:08beneficiaries without corruption. How does it prevent
00:04:11the eligibility system from becoming
00:04:14will be a significant increase in a gateway it must provide the minimum amount of for cronyism or
00:04:16exclusion? Raising prices without protecting real income
00:04:19will lead to a decline in the standard
00:04:23of living. The criterion here is not just the amount of salary,
00:04:27but what this salary can
00:04:30of the official state ideology from buy. Therefore, subsidy reforms must
00:04:33take into account wage policies,
00:04:37employment opportunities, and social
00:04:40insurance. Even with the adoption of a market economy,
00:04:44are able to work, and here we will there are services and rights that cannot
00:04:47be treated as ordinary commodities, most notably basic
00:04:51health, education, social protection, and the
00:04:54minimum level of food security.
00:04:58Economic reform succeeds not only when the state reduces
00:05:02the budget deficit, but when citizens feel that
00:05:05the burdens are distributed transparently and fairly, and that
00:05:09the funds provided by the state from subsidies are transformed
00:05:12into real services or protection or actual
00:05:16investment that benefits segments of society
00:05:20caused by the removal
00:05:24conclusion, the transition to a market economy
00:05:27may be necessary to address financial and productive imbalances
00:05:31in Syria, but its success lies in the state's
00:05:35ability to protect vulnerable
00:05:38bear
00:05:41transition.
00:05:45Viewers, to discuss this topic, I welcome my guests from Amsterdam,
00:05:48Professor of Business Administration Dr. Abdul Nasser Al-Jassem. With us from
00:05:52Damascus, Economic Planning Expert Dr.
00:05:56Khaled Al-Hamdi. And with me from Damascus also, Editor-in-Chief of The Syria Report
00:05:59Mr. Jihad Yaziji. Welcome
00:06:02to you all. Mr. Jihad, I would like to start with you. Syrian
00:06:06officials' statements since the liberation until
00:06:10today, including perhaps the latest
00:06:15the Emirates a few days ago, that Syria is heading towards a form of
00:06:19free economy with less
00:06:23economy. Even some officials have
00:06:26called other previous systems in Syria
00:06:29paternalistic economic systems. What has
00:06:32been achieved in Syria until
00:06:37the statements?
00:06:42Hmm, good evening first of all, and thank you for the invitation.
00:06:46Actually, the talk about Syria heading
00:06:49towards a free economy, as if Syria wasn't a free
00:06:53economy, is a bit wrong in itself. I mean, it's true that before
00:06:572011, the Syrian state used to provide some
00:07:01support for oil derivatives, bread,
00:07:04etc., but that doesn't make it a socialist state.
00:07:07Syria was originally a free market state.
00:07:13the private sector, private banks,
00:07:16private insurance companies, private distribution companies, all of them
00:07:20were present before 2011. The general talk that we are moving
00:07:24from a socialist economy to a free
00:07:27economy is inaccurate. What we have seen for a year and a half is the dismantling
00:07:31of what remains of state support
00:07:33in terms of social services,
00:07:35and this is present in all countries of the world, including
00:07:39liberal countries.
00:07:44For example, in France, free education, free health, etc. What is happening
00:07:48is a gradual dismantling
00:07:51of this support by the government,
00:07:54and the result of this policy
00:07:57we saw in the unrest and demonstrations that erupted a few
00:08:00days after the increase in diesel prices, gasoline, and other
00:08:03oil derivatives. In other words, there
00:08:07have been extremely liberal economic
00:08:10policies imposed on an extremely
00:08:14poor society that cannot withstand this enormous
00:08:17pressure, and the result is what we saw
00:08:20this week. There is no doubt that there are positive aspects to economic
00:08:23policies for a year and a half, and one should never deny
00:08:27that because there has been an ability to attract
00:08:31investments in certain sectors, and the main
00:08:34achievement is lifting the sanctions, which is a political achievement before it is
00:08:37economic. But dismantling state support
00:08:41for a society that is so
00:08:44poor is politically incomprehensible and
00:08:47morally and socially
00:08:50unacceptable. The problem in Syria was not the state's
00:08:53intervention in the economy in one way or another. The problem
00:08:57was fairness or distribution of opportunities or
00:09:01how it can be diagnosed in the past. And I think what
00:09:04you described, Mr. Jihad, is Syria after 2000, because perhaps
00:09:08Hafez al-Assad had shaped Syria's economy in a way
00:09:12that was closer to
00:09:14socialism.
00:09:19Is the question directed at me?
00:09:20Yes.
00:09:23No, that's right. It's actually gradual.
00:09:27Hafez al-Assad began opening the
00:09:30Syrian economy in the mid-1980s, but you could say to a large extent
00:09:34it was still a socialist system until 2000, when Bashar
00:09:37al-Assad came to power. After 2005, and the transition
00:09:43Ba'ath socialism to social
00:09:46market, you can no longer talk about a socialist
00:09:50state. Now, it was a liberal state, but with intervention.
00:09:53I mean, excuse me, a liberal economic system with state
00:09:56intervention, and this exists everywhere. I mean, in Sweden
00:10:00and France and Germany, there is state intervention. In the United States,
00:10:03for example, what did the state do when a company like
00:10:07Intel was about to
00:10:10collapse? It invested in Intel,
00:10:13raised tariffs on imports of goods from various
00:10:17countries. But for viewers to get an idea,
00:10:21the European Union budget,
00:10:24one-third of the budget is allocated
00:10:27to supporting the agricultural sector. One-third of the European Union budget.
00:10:31So it's not strange at all for the state to support
00:10:33sectors, to have high taxes
00:10:36to collect
00:10:39the money it needs to build, to invest
00:10:43in infrastructure, to educate its children,
00:10:46to treat its people. This is very normal. State intervention
00:10:49doesn't mean that it's a socialist or extremist state, if you
00:10:53like.
00:10:58explanation, Dr. Abdul Nasser. Welcome again. Do you think
00:11:01that some of the subsidy cessation policies that
00:11:05Mr. Jihad explained were forced upon the state
00:11:08today due to Syria's exhausted
00:11:11situation, which the
00:11:15authority inherited, let's say, as a disaster
00:11:18and a legacy of the deposed regime? Or
00:11:22were other policies possible that would not have
00:11:25undermined, let's say, the social role that the state was playing
00:11:29in one way or another, or that it was supposed to play if we
00:11:33don't want to compare it to the situation during Bashar
00:11:48has been discussed a lot
00:11:53discussion for two reasons.
00:11:55The first reason is that the issue of
00:11:59manipulating prices in this way for essential
00:12:03goods that affect citizens' lives affects the lives of all
00:12:06Syrians. The second reason, which is more important
00:12:12management highlighted
00:12:15a gap and a deep
00:12:18flaw in the decision-making methodology
00:12:21of the Ministry of Energy in this case and of
00:12:38in the context of the many reactions to what
00:12:41has been published and what has been said by analysts,
00:12:45journalists, interested parties, and zealous
00:12:48and keen individuals, a misleading classification has emerged
00:12:52that anyone who criticizes government policies or
00:12:56government decisions is classified as being
00:12:59against this state or against this government.
00:13:19Definitely, definitely. But I want to, I want to clarify
00:13:23because I mean
00:13:33what I want to say is that in transitional phases, more
00:13:36than anything else, governments need
00:13:39to be pointed to their shortcomings and mistakes, and to correct
00:13:42mistakes and constructive criticism directed at them. And this
00:13:48with the state, with the success of the state,
00:13:55resulted from this issue that arose recently
00:13:58showed that there is, frankly,
00:14:03in transitional phases. I want to touch
00:14:07for a minute or a minute and a half on the state's
00:14:10role in transitional phases,
00:14:13based on studies, research, and experiences of former
00:14:17countries that have gone through chronic and prolonged conflicts.
00:14:20The state's role revolves around three main
00:14:23points. First, the state has an
00:14:26economic role. This
00:14:30the state to ensure the continuity of life. That is,
00:14:35energy, electricity, and water for
00:14:38life to continue. This means early recovery, let's say.
00:14:41Then it also moves in its role
00:14:44to re-formulate financial
00:14:48and monetary policies to stabilize the currency in the country.
00:14:51Then the third economic point goes to
00:14:55a very important issue, which is the beginning of reconstruction.
00:14:58This means that the fruits of recovery should be
00:15:01equally distributed across the area. I will go
00:15:04to that. I mean, I will go to it because this is an important point. I mean,
00:15:08God willing, we will dedicate a topic to it. But I mean, there are those who say, doctor, that
00:15:11the state is not in it. I mean, the state
00:15:14is bankrupt. Where will the
00:15:18government today get what you are talking about in terms of economic
00:15:21capabilities to support these goods
00:15:25and deliver these services to the people? Because even if we want
00:15:29to talk about other state revenues, such as tax collection, this
00:15:33is not available in Syria in one way or another until today. So even
00:15:37the welfare state that Mr. Jihad spoke about and explained
00:15:40may not be able today to implement
00:15:43its policies.
00:15:55say is that I was very saddened when the media spokesperson for the Ministry of Energy
00:15:59said that we looked for alternatives and we were facing one
00:16:02of two alternatives: either the material would disappear from the market or
00:16:06we would raise the price. And this is absolutely inaccurate. This
00:16:10is what I meant when I said that there is a deep structural and administrative problem in
00:16:13decision-making. There is always a golden rule
00:16:17that we call in business administration that for every problem there is more than
00:16:21one solution, and for every solution there is a price and a cost. Wise
00:16:25management and correct
00:16:27management choose the optimal solution, meaning the solution
00:16:31with the lowest cost and the highest return. Like what? For example, in the case of
00:16:35fuel,
00:16:38what was the available solution? I will tell you. I will tell you. In transitional phases, the highest
00:16:42return that governments should look for is social
00:16:45return. You are now making
00:16:48decisions.
00:16:51I mean, it's no secret that the Syrian people today, according to UN
00:16:55classifications, the majority of Syrian families live below the poverty
00:16:57line or near the poverty line. The alternatives
00:17:01that were possible, I will tell you one alternative:
00:17:04borrowing. A state
00:17:07can borrow externally or internally with many
00:17:11guarantees, with guarantees of its existence in power,
00:17:14with guarantees that it is a state, with guarantees of the money
00:17:20Assad, Shleish, Makhlouf, and the
00:17:23Ba'ath Party's money. I mean, also, there was a clear rejection
00:17:27of this borrowing policy
00:17:30President Ahmed Al-Shara, with very clear
00:17:33statements. The matter is technical, Ms. Nour.
00:17:37No, the rejection should not be arbitrary.
00:17:41I told you, there are many alternatives, and we must choose
00:17:43the best alternative. Raising
00:17:46prices and covering the financial deficit from citizens'
00:17:49pockets is the worst option, in short.
00:17:53Every problem has more than one solution, so we chose the worst solution,
00:17:56unfortunately. Now, does the government have a chance
00:17:59to alleviate the effects? Yes,
00:18:03through smart support, which is the core
00:18:06of the question. Through smart support, targeted support,
00:18:10fair support, not equality in distributing
00:18:12support. The government
00:18:15the effects of this. Well, this
00:18:19is a very important point. I will go to you with it, Dr. Khalid, and welcome
00:18:22again. Dr. Nasser just mentioned that
00:18:26there are other forms of support, and perhaps the government today is putting forward
00:18:29these forms in one way or another. I don't know if you have seen the strategy
00:18:33of the Ministry of Social Affairs and Labor, for example,
00:18:37which talks about three or four years from 2026 until the end
00:18:41of 2028.
00:18:44There was, it seems, a new philosophy
00:18:47for support. There is talk, for example, about safety
00:18:51nets, about a social protection system that selects
00:18:54more vulnerable segments of society to provide them with support, but this
00:18:58also excludes other segments from the financial
00:19:01support that the government can provide. Do you think that such
00:19:05policies are effective and that the government
00:19:07will succeed in implementing them in a useful way?
00:19:11Or will we face other problems as well, and the Syrian
00:19:14people will not expect support in the foreseeable
00:19:29today, the core of the discussion is about
00:19:32support. Support, I do not see it as an economic goal. I
00:19:36see it as a tool to protect purchasing
00:19:39power and to protect social stability to achieve
00:19:43social stability. Today, the Syrian state,
00:19:46with its current capabilities, is almost
00:19:50non-existent. In my opinion, comprehensive
00:19:54support is not possible, and I, on the economic
00:19:58design level, am against comprehensive support. In other words, when
00:20:01the rich are equal to the poor, this is justice from a formal
00:20:05perspective, but in the end, it is catastrophic.
00:20:08Today, I mean,
00:20:11I am inclined to have support
00:20:14in a way called smart support. We link
00:20:17support to work for those who
00:20:21have I mean,
00:20:24there was a type of support and a part
00:20:27of it was to reduce the unemployment rate. Today,
00:20:31I mean, the difference between a person being poor and
00:20:34being able to work. Poverty exists in Syria, but poverty
00:20:38and being able to work. In my opinion, we must frame this issue
00:20:41in a way that is similar to some
00:20:45global experiences. Today, it is
00:20:48important when there is support
00:20:52or there is reform or price
00:20:55increases, and the Syrian state does not
00:20:59make a heavy decision like raising fuel prices unless
00:21:02it has sufficient justifications.
00:21:05Today, I say that
00:21:08any reform must take into account the most
00:21:12vulnerable social classes. This is number one.
00:21:15Number two, there must be red lines that should not
00:21:18be crossed. I mean, today, when
00:21:21we say that support should not affect the education sector, the health
00:21:25sector, the food security sector, the services
00:21:28sector entirely, these are red lines.
00:21:31The Syrian state is trying by all
00:21:36to cross these lines. However,
00:21:39the situation in Syria, in my opinion, for us to be
00:21:42professional and realistic, the situation in Syria today, Nour, needs
00:21:46a database linked to very
00:21:49accurate indicators. Statistically,
00:21:52today in Syria we lack accurate
00:21:56statistics. Today, Syria is under great pressure. We
00:22:00in Syria today, I mean, we cannot ignore or
00:22:03disconnect things. Today, Syria is heading
00:22:06towards, I mean, eliminating camps.
00:22:12How will these people who
00:22:15have suffered for a decade
00:22:18and a half in difficult weather conditions and inhumane
00:22:22conditions be brought back today? This is a priority for the Syrian state today.
00:22:25The Syrian state is building a network
00:22:28of economic relations. Today, there is no
00:22:32economy in Syria. Today, the zero
00:22:43solutions. I mean, he said that borrowing was possible
00:22:45instead of the issue coming out in one way or another from
00:22:49the citizens' pockets, as happened now. And even what you explained,
00:22:52which matches the strategy of the Ministry of Social Affairs and Labor regarding what it called
00:22:56social protection, that we support more
00:22:59vulnerable classes. Even this, I mean, seems not
00:23:02to be implemented yet, otherwise people would not have taken to the streets,
00:23:05right?
00:23:10Nour, today, the issue
00:23:13by His Excellency the President from the beginning: we do not
00:23:17want to borrow. The issue of borrowing is linked
00:23:21to political matters far from economics. Today,
00:23:24when any country is subjected to borrowing,
00:23:28it is imposed with things under the table that we do not want
00:23:31in Syria. Today, there are
00:23:34emergency solutions in the short term
00:23:37that are being worked on within
00:23:45will be politicized,
00:23:49policies, then also giving investments to foreign
00:23:52countries with this generosity, as we see in
00:23:56economic decision-making, won't it, doctor?
00:24:00And selling assets? I mean, there are those who say that assets are being sold in Syria
00:24:03today.
00:24:07I, I mean, I disagree with this idea. Nothing is being sold
00:24:11in Syria today. All investment decisions are clear
00:24:14today. We need
00:24:17foreign investment, just as we
00:24:30must offer. There is a private sector in Syria, and there is a social
00:24:34situation in Syria, and there is,
00:24:36I mean, there must be integration of these roles. Today,
00:24:41air how the burdens of reform should be
00:24:44distributed, I tell you that the state
00:24:48must bear the largest part.
00:24:58I don't want to appear on media with controversial statements. Today, for example, I ask why don't
00:25:00we allocate
00:25:03zakat through a clear fund to support
00:25:06the poor? I mean, it is an obligation, but look at what
00:25:10a difference it makes today. The private sector, give it operational
00:25:13privileges, but linked
00:25:22Mr. Jihad. I, I am giving solutions. I am giving
00:25:25solutions, Nour. I am not appearing on media to explain
00:25:29the reality or to criticize. Today, as a Syrian who cares about
00:25:47of Social Affairs and Labor because it is concerned with the citizen in one way or
00:25:50another. I said that it, I mean, provided a set
00:25:54of forms that can be offered later for support, and perhaps even
00:25:58started some of these programs, but there is a great withdrawal of the ministry's
00:26:03the policy level that Dr. Khalid mentioned some examples of,
00:26:07and he said that, for example, in some sectors,
00:26:10obliging the private sector to certain
00:26:12percentages
00:26:14for employment, obliging it, for example, to employ
00:26:18people with special needs, imposing a form of social
00:26:23policy role today and letting things
00:26:27go? Or is there control, and here we return that yes, there is state
00:26:30intervention in the economy.
00:26:36The state's intervention in the economy,
00:26:40excuse me, is very important, especially in Syria's
00:26:43current situation. Ms. Nour, you are talking about the Ministry of Social
00:26:47Affairs. Its full name is the Ministry of Social
00:26:50Affairs and Labor. Right? I mean, one of the functions of this ministry
00:26:53is to support the labor market.
00:26:56I mean, for example, let me give a simple
00:27:00example. A short while ago, there were
00:27:03strikes at the Zenobia Ceramics Factory, which is a private
00:27:06sector company. And due to pressure from the
00:27:10workers, there was a meeting at the Ministry,
00:27:12and the Ministry pressured
00:27:14to impose on the company, which was making
00:27:18profits and employing four
00:27:20workers (companies operate 24
00:27:24hours a day), it pressured the company
00:27:27to raise salaries. Now, I'm not saying this
00:27:30can be generalized,
00:27:33but there are many ways, actually, to raise wages,
00:27:36raise salaries in general, pressure
00:27:39to provide different
00:27:42types of support. But I want to mention that in the first half
00:27:46of this year, according to Ministry of Finance
00:27:50data, the Syrian state lost approximately one billion dollars,
00:27:54and this deficit was covered through funding
00:27:57and issuing bonds to finance.
00:28:01In other words, the state can
00:28:04cover additional expenses, especially under the current
00:28:08circumstances, which are circumstances of low
00:28:11employment, high cost of living, and a very
00:28:15widespread poverty level. The Ministry,
00:28:19you touched on this data,
00:28:23Mr. Jihad. Government spending
00:28:26within this same data, how much of it was spent on supporting citizens?
00:28:30That was not clear even in the government data, and this perhaps
00:28:35the street and from those who criticize government
00:28:39policies.
00:28:42The anger, in my opinion, is the result of diverse
00:28:45policies, not just rising fuel
00:28:49prices. The price of bread rose. The price
00:28:53of bread rose 14 times. It rose
00:28:56about 10-12 times, but they reduced the weight of the bread,
00:29:00the weight of the bundle. So practically,
00:29:03the price per kilogram, excuse me, rose 14
00:29:06times in a year and a half in a society where 90% live
00:29:10below the poverty line. So what do you expect the youth to do?
00:29:13I mean, what do you expect to happen? Thank God things are still under control,
00:29:16but in addition to that, Professor Nour, I want to draw attention
00:29:20to the fact that until last week,
00:29:23everyone was assuring us that there were no other
00:29:27political options regarding economic policies,
00:29:30that the state couldn't help but raise prices,
00:29:34and had no other options.
00:29:37the streets. What happened? Prices fell. The Minister
00:29:41of Energy on Thursday
00:29:45announced a reduction in fuel prices.
00:29:48This means there is, but yes, this
00:29:51is what you have, even with the prices even with the proposed prices, Professor
00:29:55Jihad, there will still be a problem and these
00:29:57the macroeconomy, meaning all prices in
00:30:01Syria. This is one of the risks of stopping support
00:30:05for goods and moving to other forms of social
00:30:08support, that as long as these prices are not
00:30:11reduced (meaning the transport of food and fuel), there
00:30:16prices. This will actually turn
00:30:20some social classes into vulnerable classes again, as if we are entering
00:30:23closed
00:30:24circles.
00:30:28Of course, especially in agricultural
00:30:31areas, because in agricultural areas, diesel
00:30:34is used not only for heating,
00:30:37but also for agricultural production
00:30:40in general. Diesel is heavily consumed in Syria
00:30:44for transport, for agriculture, for small
00:30:47economic establishments, and for heating. It's truly a
00:30:50noticeable and strange political mistake,
00:30:53actually. Of course, it's very understandable that there's pressure
00:30:57from rising global prices.