Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:14voters saw in him, which is the issue of
00:00:32Camilo Lozano, political analyst and professor at the
00:01:01in this case from a right-wing perspective in
00:01:16Look, basically Abelardo de
00:01:57building an alternate headquarters for
00:02:11Juan Camilo Lozano, political analyst and professor at the
00:02:16decentralization, but on the other hand, also
00:02:24necessarily align with President
00:02:35paddleboarding instructor here in
00:03:25Juan Camilo Losano, political analyst and professor of
00:03:30Hello, good evening and welcome to Conclusiones, I'm the Faculty of Law, Political and Social Sciences of Iván Perez Armenti from Buenos
00:03:33Aires, tonight for Fernando del
00:03:35Rincón.
00:03:42I ask you to join me from this moment on using the hashtag Conclu
00:03:46Colombia, #conclucolombia, remember that as always I receive all your comments on my
00:03:50X account at
00:03:51@ivanpzs.
00:03:54Politics, the choice of locations also sends
00:03:57messages. The fact that Abelardo de la has already decided to assume
00:04:01power in Cali instead of Bogotá, which is the capital of
00:04:04Colombia and seat of national powers, sends several signals, because
00:04:08it is not just about changing a direction on the
00:04:11that Abelardo de las Pillas has been inspired, map, it is the breaking of a republican tradition that for decades dictated that changes of command
00:04:15occurred in the center of power, in Bolívar Square, but
00:04:19the new president chose the southwest of the country in the department
00:04:22of Valle del Cauca, a region traversed by great
00:04:25contrasts, wealth and inequality, development
00:04:29and above all, violence. For some
00:04:32analysts, choosing Cali is a way of saying that the new government wants to bring
00:04:36power to one of the country's most complex areas in terms of
00:04:39security. This region has a presence of FARC dissidents, the ELN, and
00:04:43drug trafficking networks. In this
00:04:47context, the opposition in Cali seeks to send a clear message: more
00:04:52the election of the presidency of institutional presence and more support for public forces. And there is another element
00:04:55that gives Cali symbolism: it was the epicenter of the social uprising of
00:04:592021, one that propelled part of the political movement that brought the
00:05:03current president Gustavo Petro to power. Four years
00:05:06later, the far right
00:05:09there could be bad intentions regarding what chooses that same city to mark the beginning of a new
00:05:12stage. But this decision has generated resistance among many
00:05:15Colombians who question the necessity of a change like
00:05:18this. The event will be at the USC arena, a
00:05:22venue at the Santiago de Cali University with capacity for
00:05:26more than 200 people. In that place, Del Espria will take his
00:05:29oath before legislators and other authorities. It is
00:05:33expected that some Latin American presidents, King Felipe VI,
00:05:36and other international guests will attend. But the change
00:05:39of scenery itself brings the challenge of guaranteeing security. In that city
00:05:43hit by violence, does this decision have any practical sense or
00:05:47is it more spectacle than political strategy? We're going to talk about it with my first
00:05:51guest.
00:05:56I already greet Juan Camilo Lozano, political analyst and professor at the Faculty of
00:06:00Law, Political and Social Sciences of the National University of Colombia.
00:06:03Thank you for being with us and welcome to Conclusiones. The first thing
00:06:07I want to ask you is what this change
00:06:11of this mentation of leaving
00:06:14Bogotá to go to Valle del Cauca is based on. Political
00:06:17spectacle, a signal, how do you see it?
00:06:20Well, I think both, and first of all, good evening and thank you for the
00:06:24invitation to your program and to all the people listening to us right now.
00:06:29laspriella is at this moment playing with his institutional
00:06:32image under a principle, which is to
00:06:35seek to demonstrate that power is not concentrated solely in Bogotá but that
00:06:39there is also room for the region,
00:06:43in this case Cali, to be scenarios for political
00:06:46participation and in this case, a presidential position. In that sense, I wouldn't be
00:06:49talking about a decentralization process, but
00:06:53here too, this has nuances because Cali, as you were
00:06:57already saying, was the epicenter of what was known in
00:07:00Colombia as the social uprising. So it's not just a symbolic
00:07:03message of decentralization that Abelardo de la Estrella seeks to send,
00:07:07but also a message of, ah, so to
00:07:11speak, of confrontation against those
00:07:15sectors that could arrive in his own government and that before him
00:07:19to the right have opposed right-wing policies.
00:07:22So the symbolic message goes along two lines, as I'm telling
00:07:25you: on the one hand, the issue of
00:07:29the opposition or the confrontation
00:07:32towards those sectors that do not
00:07:36Abelardo de la Estrella. It must be remembered that in fact
00:07:39Cali has a symbol of the social
00:07:42uprising, eh, which is represented by a monument to
00:07:46resistance, which is a hand eh standing
00:07:49in a certain place in Cali and that from sectors close
00:07:53to Abelardo de las Pellas, it has been said that during this administration
00:07:56they seek to eliminate this symbol of the social uprising.
00:07:59So that is the symbolic message that this position
00:08:02sends. However, it must also be said another thing:
00:08:06decentralization is not only a symbolic act, it is also an act that
00:08:10has to do with the use of national public resources
00:08:14to direct them to the interests of the territory.
00:08:17And so far, what has happened in Colombia is that
00:08:21most right-wing governments have not made a very strong effort in
00:08:24terms of decentralization. It must be said that, for example, in Colombia there are
00:08:281103 cities or municipalities, and of those
00:08:31eh, 1039 during Petro's government received direct investment
00:08:35resources, while, for example, in a government that one could qualify as an ideologically
00:08:39aligned, eh,
00:08:43let's say in the same political spectrum as Abelardo de lasfia's government,
00:08:46which was Duque's government, an investment in about
00:08:48210 municipalities, that is, the difference
00:08:52was abysmal. So we will have to see if this exercise of
00:08:55decentralization, which is symbolic today, also translates
00:08:58into an exercise of material decentralization from an
00:09:02economic perspective.
00:09:04Now, speaking of symbols, the idea of this inauguration
00:09:07outside of Bogotá was to seek some symbol because it was not
00:09:11the first idea. From Las Priellas, he actually wanted to
00:09:14take office in a barracks with the armed forces,
00:09:18and this ends up being another option. So, does he seek to
00:09:21decentralize, or what he is seeking is to give a forceful message, whatever
00:09:25it may be? Well, again,
00:09:29both. He seeks to send a forceful message. He sought to take office
00:09:32before a military garrison in Popayán, eh, an
00:09:36act that he eventually rejects, let's say,
00:09:39he dispenses with it to do it in Cali under the excuse
00:09:43that in this area where the inauguration was to be held, there was a
00:09:46possible disaster, a possible
00:09:50natural disaster around a volcano that is near the area. However, this
00:09:54also has a political connotation. Look, eh, Abelardo de las
00:09:57Priella measured his pulse last
00:10:00week, eh, with
00:10:04the board of directors of the Congress of the Republic. In
00:10:07Colombia, generally, incoming governments manage to
00:10:11position themselves within the boards of directors of the legislature.
00:10:15Abelardo de la Estrella did not succeed. He was going for a
00:10:18candidate who was Congressman de Luque, and another
00:10:22candidate ended up being chosen, different from his political
00:10:25affinity, who is named Honorio.
00:10:29This problem, this
00:10:33that happened with this election, also echoed with the choice of the
00:10:36city where Abelardo was going to be inaugurated. It is reasonable
00:10:40to think that Abelardo de la Espriella, seeing that he lost the political
00:10:43pulse in Congress and that there was a very strong discussion in Congress
00:10:47about whether or not to allow an inauguration in a military garrison,
00:10:50chose a civilian route, which in this case is the inauguration in Cali.
00:10:55Why? Because there was an atmosphere or
00:10:57a climate of it being possible that
00:11:01his inauguration in a military garrison would not take place because he would not
00:11:05have the majorities in Congress, as happened with the
00:11:08election of the board of directors. So, the
00:11:12election, the inauguration in Cali can be read from two
00:11:15points of view, in summary. The first, from an institutional defeat that
00:11:19Abelardo de la Estrella suffered with the election of the board of directors and that leads him on this
00:11:23occasion to avoid another
00:11:25vote, to have the inauguration through civilian means. But it must also be said
00:11:29that, eh, in a second instance, this inauguration in Cali allows Abelardo de las
00:11:33Priria to project an image to the general citizenry of
00:11:36decentralization, of deconcentration of power, and of
00:11:40seeking that the regions in his government have the prominence that
00:11:43they have not had in other governments.
00:11:46I was just thinking while we were talking about these changes
00:11:50that Abelardo is looking for for his inauguration, that Javier Milei here in Argentina also, when
00:11:54he took office, he didn't dare. Not so much, but for example, the traditional message that
00:11:57is always given before the legislative assembly inside Congress, he preferred to give it
00:12:01outside of Congress, with his back to Congress and
00:12:04facing the people who had come to receive him,
00:12:08perhaps emulating a bit what the inaugurations in the United States were like. Perhaps
00:12:12here there was more of an attempt to make the
00:12:15Argentine ceremony similar to that of the United States. Abelardo de la
00:12:19Espilla, does he want to resemble someone, or does he want to resemble no one, does he want to be
00:12:23completely original? The new right
00:12:27seeks to shake up the institutional and traditionally
00:12:30established order a bit.
00:12:34Yes, and they seek to shake it up through unconventional acts,
00:12:37but in the case of Abelardo de la Espriella, it's a copy of many
00:12:41formulas, right? Of Bukele's formula, both in his physical
00:12:44appearance and in terms of security, of Milate's
00:12:48formula, in symbolic and representational terms, of the
00:12:52formula that the right has been using
00:12:55throughout America, in America in general. There is also a copy of what happened
00:12:59with Donald Trump. So this also reminds me a bit of the
00:13:02episode of Napoleon, when in his
00:13:06inauguration as Emperor of France, he takes the crown himself
00:13:10and does not allow the Pope to place it on his head, as was
00:13:14traditional. Outsiders seek that through
00:13:17symbolic acts that differentiate them from those who
00:13:20preceded them, seeking to show an era of change
00:13:23or transformation. Just as happened with Napoleon regarding
00:13:27the monarchies that preceded him, it happens today with these
00:13:31right-wing leaders who, not belonging to the traditional
00:13:34elite, seek to break away from
00:13:37them and demonstrate that despite being right-wing, they belong to a
00:13:41different spectrum of the political world, and in this case,
00:13:45a right that is not connected with traditional elites but is
00:13:48connected with other types of movements, in this case, for example, that of
00:13:52outsiders, those who come from businesses, those who come from the private
00:13:55sector. So yes, of course, this has both depth and breadth,
00:13:59and on the one hand it has the symbolic theme of breaking with the institutional, but
00:14:03it also has a very clear theme of sending
00:14:07political messages, and in this case, as we have already been commenting,
00:14:11sending the political message that Bogotá is not the
00:14:14city in which all kinds
00:14:18of ah
00:14:20inaugurations and all
00:14:24national political things should be carried out, but that other cities
00:14:28can also be the protagonists with the problems we have already seen throughout
00:14:30this interview. Juan Camilo, and seeing a little bit of this
00:14:36so to speak, by other leaders, you even pointed out
00:14:39this, let's say, this inspiration
00:14:43or this reminiscence with
00:14:45Napoleon, eh, finally, does all this
00:14:49end up serving a purpose or does it end up being a spectacle for
00:14:52politics? I mean, if there are
00:14:55pompous actions and little content, I mean, taking a bit of what Jamiley has done,
00:14:59what Bukele has done, I mean, all these
00:15:02changes that are seen so much, in depth, are they such
00:15:06changes or is it a bit of "gatopardismo" to change so that nothing
00:15:08changes? Well, I consider that
00:15:12it depends, it depends because in Napoleon's case,
00:15:15I go back to the example, eh, there was a clear break between the state and the
00:15:19church. But for example, in the case of the leaders who are taking office and are
00:15:23right-wing outsiders in Latin America,
00:15:26it depends on the country we're talking about. For example, with Bukele,
00:15:30what do people associate with Bukele, or what is the value associated with
00:15:34security? My law is associated with the
00:15:37economic recovery of Argentina, while, for
00:15:41example, Abelardo de la Estrella arrives with a very similar flag to
00:15:44Bukele's, which is the reclaiming of
00:15:47what a large part of his
00:15:51security, but he also comes with other flags. It must be remembered that
00:15:55Abelardo de la Estrella during the campaign said that he was
00:15:58the leader who was going to dismantle the left and that he was not going to align
00:16:02with movements close to this political sector.
00:16:06So a large part of the symbolism that he is currently
00:16:09trying to embody, not only through the inauguration, but also
00:16:13through, for example, the ministers he begins to appoint,
00:16:17seeks precisely to distance himself from the left and
00:16:20begin to fulfill that promise, at least symbolically. Note that
00:16:22for example, the issue of Cali, as we have already
00:16:26commented here, is not just an issue that has to do with
00:16:30decentralization, but also with
00:16:33placing the authority or the presidential command
00:16:39the city that represented one of the largest
00:16:42resistance foci of the social uprising,
00:16:46which was an uprising that was mobilized by the left in
00:16:49Colombia. But also his appointments, let's talk about the fact that, for
00:16:52example, the Ministry of Education at this moment will
00:16:56be in charge of a policy of
00:16:59a minister named Vivian Morales, who when she was a congresswoman
00:17:03advanced or promoted a project that sought to prevent
00:17:07LGBTI couples from having the possibility of adopting. She is at
00:17:11this moment in or will be in the Abelardo government in the Ministry of
00:17:14Education and many other appointments that have
00:17:17to do with, eh, promoting that
00:17:21right-wing agenda that Abelardo de la Estrella promised in
00:17:24his campaign. So that has both sides, it has both the symbolic
00:17:28weight of the spectacle and also a clear political
00:17:31directive that Abelardo de la Estrella will end up imposing, and we have to see if he fulfills
00:17:35it or not, that depends on the leader, but of course he is part of
00:17:39that political line of the new right in Latin America. Juan
00:17:43Camilo, let's stop here, we're going to take a break and then we'll continue chatting with
00:17:48Faculty of Law, Political and Social Sciences of the National University of Colombia,
00:17:52about this inauguration of Abelardo de la Espriella. We will also review who will
00:17:56be present there. Short break and we'll be
00:17:58back.
00:18:08Hi, I'm Daniel Navarro,
00:18:12the Bacalar
00:18:13Lagoon.
00:18:17The Lagoon of Seven Colors gets its name from the different
00:18:20shades that the lagoon has throughout its
00:18:22extension. This lagoon is a unique
00:18:26ecosystem, it is truly home to an organism that is unique on the
00:18:30planet, stromatolites, they are some of the oldest life formations
00:18:33known on Earth, and well, Bacalar contains some of the largest
00:18:37stromatolite reefs on the planet.
00:18:40Our main activity is paddle boarding in the morning, it is an
00:18:44ecological,
00:18:45sustainable
00:18:48activity. The experience is like walking on water.
00:19:04To understand the world, you need to seek the truth.
00:19:07Let's go back to the time when we had to be much more
00:19:10human, that's why we follow the facts wherever they
00:19:14lead us, no matter how far we have to go,
00:19:18from internal history, there are new statements from President
00:19:22Donald Trump. I have an external perspective,
00:19:25we delve into the data, ready for whatever
00:19:28comes, the concern is for the common Cuban,
00:19:30we face the world. Who will
00:19:35finance Maduro's defense? Find joy in new
00:19:38perspectives and new horizons, every
00:19:42day, no matter where life takes
00:19:45you, we follow what
00:19:48matters to you, we forge a path to
00:19:52truth and understanding of the world.
00:21:22Faculty of Law, Political and Social Sciences of the National University of
00:21:26Colombia. We are talking about all the symbolism that will surround this
00:21:30inauguration of Abelardo de la Espriella this August
00:21:337th in Colombia, which will not be in
00:21:36Bogotá, but in Cali. And I wanted to review
00:21:39a bit who the guests will be, because this also entails
00:21:43a great security deployment, moving
00:21:46leaders, official delegations from the
00:21:50capital to a place in the interior of Colombia that is also so marked by
00:21:54violence and insecurity. Eh, finally, who ends
00:21:57up going, let's say, his companions from the new Latin American right
00:22:01and some others? How do you see this list of guests who have confirmed their
00:22:05participation, in which the US Secretary of State,
00:22:09for example, will not be present? Well, I'll start with that last point, it
00:22:13was expected that the Secretary of State would be present, because among other things, the
00:22:16Donald Trump administration openly supported Abelardo
00:22:20during the campaign. However, the delegation, of course,
00:22:23is a delegation, eh, not only from the United States, but
00:22:27internationally, that is aligned and favorable to the political
00:22:30project that Abelardo de la Estrella represents. Perhaps
00:22:34one of the most important surprises that this inauguration has
00:22:38in terms of guests is the possible absence of
00:22:41Álvaro Uribe Vélez. Look quickly, for those who are
00:22:45watching us, Álvaro Uribe Vélez was or
00:22:47is the Colombian politician who until these elections was the
00:22:51face of the right in Colombia. He was president twice,
00:22:55reelected, and in fact, both times
00:22:58he won the presidency of the Republic eh without a
00:23:01second round. Why? Because he achieved the majorities that were needed for it.
00:23:05And being the key figure of the right, he will not attend the
00:23:08inauguration of President Abelardo de la Espriella, at least from what is
00:23:12known so far. This marks a break in Colombia,
00:23:16because at this moment Colombia is
00:23:19debating between two rights: a more
00:23:22traditional right, more eh of
00:23:24political parties, versus another right that comes to power
00:23:28from the realm of outsiders and that begins to
00:23:31break with traditional figures. Álvaro Uribe, in fact,
00:23:35supported Abelardo de la Estrella in the second round of the campaign, and this
00:23:38break means a lot. Why? Uribismo was what
00:23:42allowed the Senate presidency to
00:23:45be won by the opponent of Abelardo de la Espriella's
00:23:48candidate. Activism at this moment in
00:23:52public demonstrations speaks from an ideological
00:23:55position distanced from Abelardo de las Pellas, and
00:23:58Uribismo, through its most important figure, Álvaro
00:24:02Uribe Vélez, says he will not attend. So that has a very important
00:24:05symbolic weight within the country because it means that the right
00:24:09is dividing in the nation and that Abelardo de las Trillas came to
00:24:12be a presidency of rupture. But let's also talk about other guests. It is known
00:24:16that, for example, the president of FIFA will come. Eh, I was
00:24:20seeing today a news item that Infantino will be
00:24:23present at the presidential inauguration of Abelardo de la Estriella. This
00:24:27of course sends many messages because it is not only eh a matter of
00:24:30politicians in office, but also of the political weight that
00:24:34sectors like football have globally. Today football
00:24:38also moves masses, and the fact that
00:24:42Infantino attends the celebration, the inauguration
00:24:45of Abelardo de la Estrella, sends a message, at least
00:24:47it sends two messages. The first
00:24:50eh, that Abelardo de las Pillas aligns with that business sector
00:24:54that, eh, basically is part of those economic
00:24:57elites globally, but also a
00:25:00message of unity around
00:25:04a closing of ranks of what one could call
00:25:08the great international establishment around Abelardo de la
00:25:11Espriella. Other figures, of course, eh, the
00:25:15countries that at this moment in Latin America align with Abelardo de la
00:25:18Estrella will also be present at the
00:25:22inauguration. It is known that, for example, President Milei was invited, and
00:25:26look, something you mentioned is very important.
00:25:29Cali is a city that historically and
00:25:32unfortunately is insecure. It is a city in which
00:25:36it is known that armed groups have been present,
00:25:39etc., and of course, as we have already been saying, Abelardo de la
00:25:43Estrella's message to these groups is a message of containment, of
00:25:46security, that he will not allow these places to be taken.
00:25:50But it is reasonable to think that not only the
00:25:54security schemes must be very alert, but that, eh,
00:25:59happens in this city, and I say this because
00:26:03recently today, eh, it is known that there was a seizure in the country of
00:26:07a vehicle loaded with explosives that was heading towards the city
00:26:11of Cali. Let's hope that nothing happens, but this city
00:26:15will have to reinforce its security schemes for this
00:26:18inauguration, because it is known that it could be the object of
00:26:22terrorist attacks, of, ah,
00:26:25situations that threaten public order,
00:26:28and the most worrying thing here is that, well, we will have a fairly large
00:26:32international delegation that needs to be protected
00:26:36from disruptive elements or that in this case
00:26:39represent, eh, armed groups outside the law that
00:26:42could try to torpedo this presidential inauguration.
00:26:46However, and going back to your question, clearly
00:26:49we currently have an international delegation that, on the one hand, from the
00:26:53United States, it was expected that perhaps
00:26:55ah, eh, eh, higher-ranking
00:26:59delegates would come, and at some point in the Colombian press,
00:27:02there was even talk of the possible surprise of, eh, a visit from Donald
00:27:06Trump, something that has not happened in other inaugurations, eh, in Latin
00:27:10America, eh, but that was perhaps expected due to the support that the President
00:27:14of the United States gave to Abelardo de la Estrella. Without However, the delegation that the United
00:27:18States will send is a delegation that, while not being of the
00:27:21highest level, does have an important level within American
00:27:24politics, as well as delegates from all over Latin
00:27:28America.
00:27:31Juan Camilo, we have a minute left. I want to ask you
00:27:34what will happen to the Nariño House, because the previous administration had already said that they could
00:27:38turn it into a museum. Uh, do you think something like
00:27:41this will happen or that at first he will try to
00:27:44reduce the importance of the Nariño House and it will eventually end up as always,
00:27:48that everything ends up converging there, because it is very difficult to change
00:27:52everything so drastically and in such a brilliant way. How do you see it?
00:27:55Well, in Barranquilla they are already
00:27:59the presidency of the republic, and the promise of Abelardo is
00:28:02to turn the palace into a museum
00:28:06open to the public. Look, Colombia
00:28:09is not a centralized
00:28:11country due to an absence of presidential
00:28:15will. It is a country only because there has
00:28:18been a lack of will, but rather it is a centralized country because its
00:28:21institutions have historically operated in Bogotá.
00:28:25Although President Abelardo de la Espriella says he will turn the
00:28:28palace into a museum, something he can do, he still maintains a presidential
00:28:33office in the San Carlos palace. He announced that in Bogotá, when
00:28:37he was in Bogotá, he would govern from the San Carlos palace.
00:28:40So, there are several things to say here. Bogotá will not lose its
00:28:43importance, at least not all the importance it has in national
00:28:47politics, because Bogotá is a city that is
00:28:51strategically located for the Colombian case and whose institutions
00:28:54have historically operated here. Uh, but
00:28:57it must also be said that this attempt at decentralization can indeed
00:29:01lead to the palace becoming an open-air museum, but Bogotá will
00:29:04continue to have an important role, not because Abelardo de las Priella
00:29:08loves Bogotá, because it seems that maybe he doesn't so much, that
00:29:12he will probably govern more thinking about the regions, but because the institutional
00:29:15burden and the weight of history will make it so that many of the
00:29:19decisions that are made converge in the capital of the
00:29:22country. Juan Camilo, thank you for being with us. That was
00:29:29the National University of Colombia who has been with us here in conclusions. Thank
00:29:33you very much, we will take a new break, but when we return here to
00:29:37conclusions, we will talk about the assassination of a young man while he was making
00:29:40content for social networks in Culiacán that
00:29:43reignites the debate about violence in Mexico. A short break and we will be back
00:29:47with this topic, don't go anywhere.