Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00However, the issue that unity in society... causes us a lot of concern is that
00:00:03we have a few measures that we have presented to our President
00:00:07and we are implementing them, but what I can say to the public
00:00:11is that we have conveyed our call to both sides
00:00:14regarding the establishment of a mechanism for declaring a moratorium
00:00:18on this issue. The Ukrainians also had a request
00:00:21regarding this, and we have already conveyed this to our Russian counterparts.
00:00:24We are waiting for their response on this matter.
00:00:28if I had stayed
00:00:30But when you look at the course of the war now, both sides are targeting each other's logistics,
00:00:34and we see that they are targeting each other's important logistics facilities.
00:00:38This has become a very dangerous civil
00:00:41side. Yes, it has spread.
00:00:44We were seeing this unfortunately. In 5 years, this war has come to this point.
00:00:48Now, why aren't mediators acting quickly?
00:00:50One of the reasons is that when mediating
00:00:53parties intervene, especially the Americans, they
00:00:56say this: as long as the warring parties
00:01:02have military capabilities that they think they can still use against each other,
00:01:05no one will easily take a compromising step.
00:01:08Frankly, this does not make the mediator's job easier.
00:01:11What will always make the mediator's job easier
00:01:15is for both sides to meet in the middle by making concessions.
00:01:19But in a place where no one makes concessions,
00:01:23the war continues to increase in intensity until it creates
00:01:27its own area of compromise. Unfortunately, what we are witnessing
00:01:30now is this. This is what I actually
00:01:33told my American colleagues last year.
00:01:36When I saw their morale decline, I said that they would now
00:01:40give up and leave. Now,
00:01:43this will happen: both sides expect
00:01:46that when they have completely worn each other out,
00:01:49they will come to a table
00:01:54and make peace. This was already the case before. When was this the case,
00:01:58if you remember,
00:02:00at a point where negotiations were at their peak,
00:02:03there was such a situation:
00:02:07the war had turned into what we call
00:02:09a war of attrition. It was a war of attrition
00:02:13on the front line. Soldiers on the front line
00:02:16were holding their positions, as in World War I
00:02:20and World War II, in their trenches.
00:02:22Because they couldn't advance, they were killing each other with drones and artillery.
00:02:26No one could move from their place, and thousands of soldiers were dying there every month.
00:02:30And countries were pouring money and people into this. At that time, we defined
00:02:34this as a war of attrition. When we intervened as mediators
00:02:38at the optimum point of this war of attrition,
00:02:40a ground for something emerged, a ground for compromise emerged.
00:02:44There, because of the
00:02:47territory in the Donetsk region that the Russians
00:02:50could not take, which they said was 24-25%
00:02:53last year and 15% this year,
00:02:57the parties could not reach an agreement because a certain amount of
00:03:00land could not be taken. The war was stuck here. When this also
00:03:04failed to yield results,
00:03:09the war of attrition turned into a war of annihilation,
00:03:13which included civilian targets.
00:03:16How far will it go, Mr. Minister? That's the problem. That's the problem.
00:03:19When
00:03:21this war of annihilation,
00:03:25this attrition on the front line, turns into attrition
00:03:28behind the front line, the issue is not about
00:03:32winning or losing a war, or winning or losing a battle
00:03:36on the front line; it becomes an issue
00:03:39related to whether you will exist as a nation.
00:03:43You will use your last resort,
00:03:46whatever it is. So,
00:03:49we know what Russia's last
00:03:53resort is. Will this go in that direction
00:03:57in terms of analysis? Yes, if the war of annihilation
00:04:00goes to that extent, unfortunately,
00:04:04our analyses have always been right so far. We also mentioned this to Russia
00:04:07during my visit, when I talked to our counterparts,
00:04:11because the people were demanding such a thing.
00:04:15We also told this to the Westerners. The Westerners also know
00:04:18that Russia... This is a dangerous situation, frankly.
00:04:22Here, we need to
00:04:25intervene and stop this war
00:04:29as the international community. Because
00:04:32everything that was thought to be impossible is happening.
00:04:35The war is expanding geographically,
00:04:38it is expanding in terms of targets, and it is expanding in terms of methods.
00:04:41And it can escalate to a higher level. We need to avoid this.
00:04:44This should be enough. This much attrition
00:04:47and annihilation should be enough.
00:04:51However, the perceptions of Europe,
00:04:54Russia, and America, as well as Ukraine,
00:04:58which stands as an important party
00:05:00to the war,
00:05:03not only in Turkey's fight against terrorism, present some differences. When you delve into deep discussions,
00:05:07as we did, we spoke with the leaders of both sides for a month, then with the Europeans,
00:05:11and then with the Americans. Actually,
00:05:14strategic assessments are currently
00:05:18not formed with the understanding that the cessation of
00:05:21war is above all other interests,
00:05:24that we should send very advanced and heavy efforts.
00:05:28Because it is thought, and I won't go into detail,
00:05:31in certain circles, that "if I leave this war as it is,
00:05:35I will have more losses than the losses
00:05:38that will occur from the continuation of the war."
00:05:43Therefore, "I shouldn't leave this war like this."
00:05:44The problem is,
00:05:47mathematically, both sides think that their losses
00:05:51will be the same. This is one of those rare situations.
00:05:54So, do you think both sides will have
00:05:58the same amount of losses?
00:05:59No, no, but there is subjectivity
00:06:02involved. There is sentiment involved.
00:06:06And of course,
00:06:09I don't want to go into detail here, there are some issues.
00:06:12Yes, thank you. Mr. Faruk,
00:06:15your question
00:06:30step was taken in the process of a Turkey without terror;
00:06:34the framework law proposal was submitted to the parliament.
00:06:38What is your assessment of this process? Well, when we look at the draft
00:06:41framework law, there are indeed
00:06:44important provisions there.
00:06:48This framework law's acceptance is one of the important
00:06:51stages for the successful completion of this ongoing process,
00:06:54God willing. I also hear
00:06:58some concerns that sometimes arise in the public regarding this.
00:07:01They are, of course, perhaps right to be concerned
00:07:05due to incomplete information, but it needs to be said that
00:07:09this framework law has very well-written and
00:07:12guaranteeing provisions.
00:07:15It has a beautiful language and mechanism
00:07:19from a legal perspective. What does it mean?
00:07:22It means that the organization will not be able to benefit
00:07:26from the provisions of this law without laying down its arms
00:07:28and without giving up its capabilities. As defined there,
00:07:32the organization's laying down its armed capabilities
00:07:36and its transformation into a normal democratic and civilian life
00:07:40is our strategic goal: the end of terror
00:07:43and the continuation of the people living
00:07:46in national unity and solidarity in a normal way.
00:07:50Normally, this should have been implemented since the last democratic reforms were made.
00:07:54You know, in 2013, major reforms were made
00:07:58regarding language, education in schools,
00:08:01elective Kurdish broadcasting
00:08:04televisions. That is,
00:08:07the organization should have evolved into this peaceful path
00:08:11since the period when all issues related to identity were resolved.
00:08:15However, at that time, as we discussed from time to time,
00:08:18some regional and international
00:08:21changes and balances
00:08:25would work in their favor, some others said different things.
00:08:28As a result, they did not benefit from it.
00:08:32At this stage, 13 years later, they see that the regional
00:08:35conjuncture and the global conjuncture are not very much
00:08:38in their favor. This environment of democracy
00:08:42in Turkey, which works for everyone's benefit,
00:08:45actually needs to be a part of it. That is, what is being done
00:08:49is not for the benefit of the Kurds. That is, it is an action style
00:08:52that contributes to more economic loss, more instability,
00:08:56and more concern. I hope that this time
00:08:59they will grasp this extended hand. But as I said,
00:09:03the leading provisions of the law have a really good mechanism.
00:09:07Turkey has closely followed the initiative
00:09:10taken.
00:09:29I want to ask a very clear question: What does a solution in Cyprus
00:09:32mean for Turkey? For Turkey,
00:09:35a solution, essentially, at this moment,
00:09:37is the recognition of a two-state solution.
00:09:42The ideal solution is the implementation of a two-state solution,
00:09:45meaning a structure
00:09:48where both Greeks and Turks have their own states.
00:09:50And for these two states to live in peace and harmony
00:09:54with each other on the island. This would contribute
00:09:57to the prosperity of the island and to regional peace and stability.
00:10:00This is our stance. Now, in practice,
00:10:04how close is this ideal of ours to reality?
00:10:07When we look at it from that perspective, there is a slightly different picture.
00:10:10We need to bridge the gap between
00:10:14the ideal we put forward and the practical situation.
00:10:17This is also why we support the Cyprus negotiations and the search for a solution in Cyprus.
00:10:21Our President always supports these efforts in that direction.
00:10:25Now, the UN Secretary-General is a truly valuable figure.
00:10:28Mr. Guterres, during his tenure as Secretary-General,
00:10:32always adopted a management approach
00:10:35that prioritized human dignity.
00:10:38Whether it was the Philippines issue or other matters,
00:10:42he always tried to stand by what was right.
00:10:46Here, too, our President trusts
00:10:49him personally. We believe that the initiatives
00:10:53put forward must be fair. Now, the Cyprus that emerged
00:10:57from the 1960 Treaty
00:11:00is not the Cyprus that the European Union admitted as a member in 2004.
00:11:03We recognized the Cyprus of 1960.
00:11:06It was a state based on
00:11:10the equal governance of two communities.
00:11:13Later, the Greeks said that they did not want Turks
00:11:17in the government,
00:11:18and they started by expelling
00:11:21Turks from the government. Finally,
00:11:25when 1974 came, the military
00:11:27junta in Greece, as you know,
00:11:30carried out a coup in Cyprus in the summer of 1974.
00:11:33And the issue of uniting the island with Greece emerged.
00:11:36Leaving aside the fact that the Cyprus of 1960
00:11:40was disappearing, Cyprus was completely
00:11:43disappearing. For this reason, while the international
00:11:46community was asleep, Turkey acted
00:11:50to protect the rights of the Turks in Cyprus and to ensure
00:11:54that Cyprus remained Cyprus. This is also an important point. Now, at this point,
00:11:57the Greek Cypriot administration is recognized
00:12:01as a state representing all of Cyprus. However, the Turks living
00:12:04in the north are ignored and neglected
00:12:07at this point. Who guarantees
00:12:11their economic and security? It is the Republic of Turkey.
00:12:15We have no problem with this. They are our brothers.
00:12:18We have accepted the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus as a sovereign and independent state.
00:12:22Okay, we are the only ones who accept it, but
00:12:26this is not
00:12:28an issue that will change our stance.
00:12:31However, starting from 2004,
00:12:35Turkey supported the discussions that took place
00:12:39to see if a structure where the two communities
00:12:42could be equal could emerge,
00:12:46both in the Annan Plan and later in the Crans Montana
00:12:50processes. Our President approved this at the time.
00:12:54The 1960 state was a two-community state.
00:12:57Now, both the Annan Plan
00:13:01and other plans are two-community,
00:13:05two-zone, two-region.
00:13:08The areas where Cypriots
00:13:09and Greeks live
00:13:13are distinct places. Can a solution be reached
00:13:16among them? Here, Turkey's interests, the region's interests,
00:13:19and the issue of the Turkish Cypriot's sovereign,
00:13:22equal, and independent stance
00:13:26are important. We have always said this:
00:13:29the Greek Cypriot administration will never
00:13:33go for equal power-sharing, authority-sharing,
00:13:36welfare-sharing, or state-sharing
00:13:39with the Turks. This is a clear issue.
00:13:42They now have a state, they are a member of the European Union,
00:13:46they are represented in the UN, and they benefit from all
00:13:49the advantages. Now, they will go and share this
00:13:52with someone else. They know themselves
00:13:56that this is a lie. We tell the international community
00:13:59this, and they know it too.
00:14:01Continuing such a lie is not rational.
00:14:05In the meantime, the rights of the Turks living
00:14:08in the North must be protected by the international community.
00:14:12Thankfully, we are a strong country. Our capabilities are sufficient for that, there is no problem there.
00:14:16They are also a very hardworking country themselves. They have a dynamic democracy
00:14:19within them. You see, the opposition, the government,
00:14:23the parties, a very smoothly functioning process.
00:14:26They have economies,
00:14:29but they are not left alone. The Greek Cypriot administration
00:14:32uses its rights as a state to block all benefits
00:14:35that the Turkish Cypriots could receive from the international community.
00:14:39It blocks trade,
00:14:43transportation, all of these. Now,
00:14:46this is a very long topic. We focus on two things.
00:14:50Firstly, when we receive solution proposals
00:14:54like this, we look at who they come from. If it comes from the United Nations,
00:14:57if something comes from Mr. Guterres, we listen to it.
00:15:00Our President says that the UN, as the international community, because there was a state established
00:15:03by UN resolutions in 1960. The international community
00:15:06needs to understand this. Secondly,
00:15:10we support all dialogue environments
00:15:12that include Turkish Cypriots, because the position
00:15:16of Turkish Cypriots needs to be well understood.
00:15:19The generation 20 years ago in Europe or elsewhere,
00:15:23the political generation, might have understood this,
00:15:27but it needs to be constantly explained.
00:15:30There is a new generation now, and
00:15:33the reasons why Turkish Cypriots established a state,
00:15:36why they had no other choice but to establish a state,
00:15:39and how unfair the isolation suffered by this established state
00:15:43is, need to be explained again and again.
00:15:46That is why we support
00:15:49this dialogue environment. Secondly,
00:15:53our President developed such a method,
00:15:57and I suggest it to the parties on the ground.
00:16:00We don't need to wait for permanent solutions
00:16:04to achieve certain benefits.
00:16:08Both the north and south of the island
00:16:11need water, energy, and electricity. They need tourists.
00:16:14Joint projects and joint work
00:16:17can be done for these.
00:16:20We also stated this to the Secretary-General.
00:16:23That is, this can be evaluated in terms of confidence-building measures
00:16:27between the two sides. Because the Greek side is happy with its current position,
00:16:30and the Turkish side
00:16:33is also happy with its current position.
00:16:37That is, there is no longer any problem
00:16:41with the geographical positions of the parties,
00:16:43because the parties have been in the same place
00:16:47for more than 50 years since 1974.
00:16:51New generations have emerged there, life has begun
00:16:54and continues. However,
00:16:58the opportunities that the Turks have are more limited
00:17:02compared to others. This needs to be overcome.
00:17:04That is why, in return, we
00:17:08do not recognize the Greek Cypriot administration as a state.
00:17:11That is, if you do not recognize the rights of the Turkish Cypriots,
00:17:15I will not recognize your statehood,
00:17:18because you are not the state that was established in 1960.
00:17:22Everyone knows this. Therefore,
00:17:25our non-recognition is also perfectly legitimate.
00:17:28However,
00:17:30it brings certain disadvantages
00:17:34to the Greek Cypriot side. Actually,
00:17:37it is possible for both sides
00:17:41to take steps that will build common trust
00:17:44without changing their legal positions, leaving these issues for the long term.
00:17:48As I said, we told the other side
00:17:52very boldly and creatively, that energy cooperation
00:17:55can be done, water cooperation can be done,
00:17:58commercial cooperation can be done. Everyone can make money,
00:18:02everyone can live well. The presence of Turkish troops there,
00:18:06look, it has not changed the status quo at all.
00:18:09For 50 years, the status quo has been the same.
00:18:13This means that the stability and peace on the island
00:18:16is due to one reason:
00:18:19the presence of the Turkish army on the island.
00:18:23Is this indispensable for the island? Under these circumstances, where neither side
00:18:27agrees to a permanent solution,
00:18:31because you cannot prevent the Greeks from saying
00:18:33that the entire island belongs to them. Now, if you use
00:18:38these overwhelming capabilities you have
00:18:42against the Turks, who will come to the aid
00:18:45of the Turks? We will go again.
00:18:48Therefore, in a place where this is not
00:18:50tied to a permanent solution,
00:18:53and where it remains the same, you cannot expect this to change in the equation.
00:18:57It will not change. But as I said,
00:19:01if the Annan Plan had been implemented, if a conclusion had been reached
00:19:04in Crans Montana, perhaps different steps
00:19:08could have been taken. But the current status quo
00:19:11does not allow for any changes in the balances.
00:19:15Thank you. We are slowly coming to the end
00:19:19of our broadcast. Ms. Büşranur,
00:19:21please. Mr. Minister,
00:19:32will be offered to Turkey in this regard?
00:19:35Following this, what concrete
00:19:37steps will we see in terms of industry,
00:19:41that is, defense industry, increasing trade volume,
00:19:44and participation in regional security mechanisms?
00:19:47That is, as we saw in ASEAN, and as we discussed
00:19:51in the opening remarks earlier,
00:19:54in the security pact, in foreign policy,
00:19:57we are constantly trying to carry out certain things
00:20:01institutionally and structurally. That is,
00:20:04by anchoring ourselves in solid ground,
00:20:08we are trying to ensure that efficiency and success
00:20:11are not random, but continuous.
00:20:15One of the issues we have been working on
00:20:18for the last three years was the ASEAN
00:20:21partnership. Here, there were 11
00:20:25ASEAN countries and 11-12 of the world's largest countries
00:20:29that had dialogue partnerships. China, America, Russia,
00:20:33this is the only place where all countries meet. Because ASEAN countries
00:20:36are countries with a population of 700 million,
00:20:39which are politically neutral, but focused on economy,
00:20:43development, and market. There is also a big opportunity there.
00:20:46Right now, there is something between Cambodia
00:20:50and... I forgot the country.
00:20:52Oh, between Cambodia
00:21:00and... there is a border
00:21:03dispute. So there is a problem between them.
00:21:07Other than that, the region is a comfortable
00:21:10country, frankly. Here,
00:21:14there is a great economic opportunity. There is productivity.
00:21:16We have serious efforts
00:21:20to benefit from this economic productivity.
00:21:23We have a lot of searches, and we are working hard, frankly.
00:21:27Cambodia and Thailand. Thailand, Thailand.
00:21:44Our business people have great activities,
00:21:47and we have great investments. But
00:21:50we need to be in a constructive dialogue with this region.
00:21:54That is, in a place where Russia, America, China, England, America,
00:21:58France, and Canada are present, the absence of Turkey's economy as a structural
00:22:01partner was not acceptable.
00:22:05Actually, they had declared a moratorium, Serdar Bey.
00:22:08That is, the ASEAN countries said, "We are few,
00:22:12and our capacity to work with our dialogue partners
00:22:15may be limited." There was a lot of demand from the world.
00:22:19They had declared a moratorium on accepting new dialogue partners
00:22:22some time ago. But thanks to our persistent
00:22:26and systematic efforts,
00:22:29this has also been realized. We will continue
00:22:32to work very closely with the ASEAN region.
00:22:35Generally, it should be said that in this foreign policy
00:22:39that we pursue under the leadership of our President,
00:22:43our policy of developing commercial, economic, social,
00:22:46and political relations, going far beyond
00:22:50our classic areas, is very systematic.
00:22:53It is the same with African countries, Latin America,
00:22:56and Asia Pacific. God willing,
00:23:00we are not stuck in this. The mistake of the past
00:23:04in foreign policy making was that the fire
00:23:06in your immediate region consumed you so much
00:23:10that you inevitably overlooked other places
00:23:13where history was flowing. Now, it was necessary to have
00:23:16the mindset and institutional structure to manage different crises
00:23:20simultaneously, to see and manage crises
00:23:24and opportunities simultaneously. And that's what we're doing.
00:23:28That is, a crisis we are dealing with in the Middle East
00:23:31should not prevent us from reaching an interest
00:23:35in Asia Pacific. Our mind should not be trapped there.
00:23:39It is heavy, it is big, we lean into it at the leadership level,
00:23:42but other institutions, other structures we have established,
00:23:46should be able to deal with it. Thankfully, that institutional
00:23:50maturity, that mental awareness, and diplomatic skill
00:23:53are what Turkey currently possesses.
00:24:03the 25th anniversary of the AK Party's establishment is approaching.
00:24:05Excuse me. One of the areas where our country
00:24:08has been most effective in this process is undoubtedly foreign policy.
00:24:12We see that Turkey conducts a very effective
00:24:15and simultaneous foreign policy and diplomacy in many geographies
00:24:18and on many topics. How do you evaluate this situation?
00:24:22I tried to express this throughout the program. In fact,
00:24:26Turkey has very significant and constructive contributions
00:24:29as a respected actor to all the vital problems
00:24:33faced by the region and the world. There are proactive contributions.
00:24:36Now, how did this happen? This is actually a history
00:24:39of the AK Party's foreign policy at one point.
00:24:4325 years ago, when the AK Party was founded,
00:24:46there was such a world. there was: cold.
00:24:50A world that had just
00:24:52come out of war, looking for a mental perception
00:24:56trying to prepare for the post-Cold
00:24:59War period. On September 11th
00:25:012001 happened, immediately after
00:25:05that, the Ak Party was formed.
00:25:07So here
00:25:13there was a need for a staff and a mind
00:25:16that could read and understand the new world that emerged
00:25:20well and position Turkey's place in it well,
00:25:24not just as rhetoric, goals and ideology,
00:25:27but also read the existing reality well. AK Party
00:25:31actually has a formulation that takes into account
00:25:34the strategic culture and strategic aspirations
00:25:38of this nation, and its strategic
00:25:41spiritual aspect, by learning from the mistakes
00:25:45of the past and evaluating the current conditions well.
00:25:48Of course, in the post-Cold War period, as you know,
00:25:52Turkey, NATO, Turkey had to get out of the automatic
00:25:55pilot situation where it felt comfortable
00:25:58in foreign policy during the Cold War. In that period,
00:26:01alliances were clear, enemies were clear,
00:26:04friends were clear, and your scope of action was clear.
00:26:08You would give foreign policy to the automatic pilot
00:26:12on many important and vital issues, and you would just go.
00:26:15But in the post-Cold War period, where friends,
00:26:19enemies, alliances, everything has changed, you
00:26:21can no longer use automatic pilot, you have to go
00:26:25in free mode, manual mode. And in that case, the captain
00:26:28is important. So the biggest advantage
00:26:31of our nation here is that
00:26:34our President
00:26:36emerged as a leader. He took the place of the captain
00:26:40pilot and you have to do foreign policy in manual
00:26:43pilot, which has gotten out of automatic pilot, because there is no place
00:26:47in the world to connect to automatic pilot anymore, that world
00:26:51is not that world. Automatic pilot would
00:26:54probably not take you to the Mecca alliance, this is not possible.
00:26:58I mean, automatic pilot is already
00:27:01gone, you are trying to keep it alive mentally.
00:27:05The transatlantic alliance has undergone many transformations.
00:27:08You have been pushed into the category of enemy
00:27:12due to clashes of civilizations, especially after September 11th,
00:27:16this has become even more apparent. You are stubbornly trying to keep
00:27:19it there mentally, but it is not happening at all.
00:27:22You are trying to join the EU, there are other kinds of problems
00:27:25there. All our goals, that is,
00:27:29our goals from the past, must be continued at the same
00:27:32time, but we need to take new risk environments
00:27:35into account and proceed. Of course, this was not easy.
00:27:39Look, it was very difficult. We saw this a lot
00:27:43in Syria, Iraq, in the fight against
00:27:46the PKK, and in other issues.
00:27:49When the AK Party came to power, Turkey was not ready
00:27:53for the period of uncertainty that emerged after the Cold War,
00:27:57neither mentally nor structurally. Its institutions were not ready,
00:28:00its means and capabilities were not ready.
00:28:04That is, we can say it now, if we were civil servants
00:28:08then, we could not say, we are not ready for this,
00:28:12we are not ready for that. This is against the etiquette
00:28:16of governing the state. But years have passed,
00:28:19and you are now evaluating some things.
00:28:22In the face of such impossibility, a leadership emerges.
00:28:26There is an accumulated problem related to internal economic
00:28:29development. There is an infrastructure problem.
00:28:33You need to solve them. You have a ton of problems
00:28:36related to democracy, that is, issues that were
00:28:40put forward as identity denial at that time.
00:28:43There were other democratization problems related to freedom
00:28:47of thought. You have a ton of problems
00:28:50in foreign policy,
00:28:52problems in domestic
00:28:54politics. How do you make a world
00:28:58where there are difficulties and good things
00:29:01possible, without disrupting the normal flow of life,
00:29:04where people will get married, have children, have grandchildren,
00:29:08have jobs, earn money, lose money?
00:29:11I mean, by normal life, I mean without disrupting
00:29:13normal life.
00:29:15In a place where everyone is on fire,
00:29:18your north is on fire,
00:29:21your south is on fire, your east is on fire,
00:29:25your west is on fire, everywhere is on fire,
00:29:28and you are running things here in manual pilot
00:29:31with the skill of the captain pilot. Now, this is the AK Party.
00:29:35This is the AK Party. I always say the same thing
00:29:37to the delegates and members when I speak at party
00:29:41organizations everywhere I go: the success here
00:29:45is your success, because you continuously elected the government
00:29:48that serves you, brings you success,
00:29:51and brings you benefits. You brought our President
00:29:54back to the position of governing. This long-term leadership
00:29:57brought us great strategic advantages, especially
00:29:59in foreign policy. That is, you cannot
00:30:02achieve certain alliances, certain
00:30:06transformations and changes in 5, 6, or 7 years.
00:30:10It takes many years for the same will, the same alliance,
00:30:14and the same cadres to act together, that is,
00:30:17to carry issues through various stages.
00:30:20Especially in our region, personal relationships
00:30:24and accumulated experiences have an incredible impact
00:30:27on managing events. As I said, you are not
00:30:30on automatic pilot. When you expect something
00:30:34from the hegemon, the hegemon comes to you with its own institutional
00:30:38capacity and does something. The region has always been like
00:30:42that, but now a person who has been a manager and leader
00:30:45in the region for many years, our President, comes
00:30:49out and says, "I have been managing this country,
00:30:52this region, for so many years as your brother.
00:30:55I am the leader of this country, and I have such a vision
00:30:59for this region and for Turkey." And when people listen to this, they say,
00:31:03"This is something that is in all our interests."
00:31:07Everyone wants to emulate what is happening in Turkey.
00:31:10Therefore, this vision put forward by the AK Party
00:31:14must continue without interruption, and the leadership of our
00:31:16President must continue.
00:31:19There are many issues to discuss regarding foreign policy.
00:31:23That is, there are many issues to discuss in the triangle
00:31:26of the AK Party's ideological position, the expectations
00:31:29and guidance of the base, and the leadership
00:31:32of our President. Maybe we can do that in another
00:31:41Well, we have to end this program, which we started
00:31:45with the Mecca Defense Alliance.
00:31:48We believe that this alliance generates trust for friends
00:31:51and concern for enemies. Let's get a final assessment
00:31:55and close our broadcast. What you said is true,
00:31:59trust for friends, many people are happy,
00:32:03especially there are countries that are not members of the alliance
00:32:06but are as happy as if they had joined themselves.
00:32:10And there are also communities of people, especially
00:32:14from the Islamic world, who give a lot of support to this issue.
00:32:17There are also those from the West who give support,
00:32:20in terms of those who know the truth of the matter. That is, the way
00:32:24for the Middle East to stop being a place that creates
00:32:28problems for humanity and the international community and instead
00:32:31becomes a place that creates added value with everything
00:32:33it has, passes through the realization of such constructive alliances.
00:32:37And those who prioritize this appreciate it, frankly.
00:32:41That is, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Turkey played a big role
00:32:45with their leadership here. The task that falls
00:32:48to us is to fulfill this political will,
00:32:52which has been put forward by the leaders of three countries,
00:32:55in a very professional manner, step by step,
00:32:58because we are aware that it creates a great regional and global expectation.
00:33:01We need to fill this with professional work and proceed.
00:33:05And we have started to do this. Hopefully, we will continue.
00:33:09Thank you. Today, August 8, 2026,
00:33:12the guest of Anadolu Agency's editorial desk was our
00:33:16Foreign Minister, Mr. Hakan Fidan. Our broadcast has ended here,
01:04:44Hello from TRT News screens, it's 21:54, you're on focus
01:04:48agenda, let's take a quick look at what's on the agenda.
01:04:52The eyes of the whole world are turned to the Middle East,
01:04:55the defense agreement signed by Turkey, Pakistan, and Saudi
01:04:58Arabia is being discussed worldwide. Uh, why is this
01:05:02agreement important, what does it cover, what areas
01:05:06will there be cooperation in? Of course, we will discuss all these in focus
01:05:09agenda, we will evaluate it with our guests, another important topic
01:05:13without terror, we can say that
01:05:16another important threshold has been crossed regarding the process,
01:05:20the bill on strengthening national solidarity and social
01:05:23integration was accepted in the Parliament's Justice Committee. It is expected
01:05:26to be brought to the General Assembly on Monday. So,
01:06:13Foreign Minister Mr. Fidan, Hakan Fidan, was a guest
01:06:16on Anadolu Agency's editor's desk program,
01:06:19where he made very important statements regarding the agenda.
01:06:23Let's see what he said, then
01:06:25we can discuss it.
01:06:28Technically, it's the same. That's why you form a security pact,
01:06:32that's why other countries make a final
01:06:36decision to join an alliance,
01:06:39that is, to benefit from each other's protective
01:06:42support. There is no problem here, there is no common threat.
01:06:46We will now be closely interested in each other's
01:06:49security. We are committed. This is
01:06:52a starting point, in the region, as long
01:06:55as it is not attacked from within or outside the region,
01:06:59this alliance... "It cannot have a dispute with
01:07:02any country, no country that doesn't attack us is
01:07:05our target."
01:07:08Now, Mr. Fidan's focus was especially on the Mecca
01:07:12Agreement. Regarding the Mecca Agreement,
01:07:15actually, he shared a summary
01:07:18of what has been discussed in the last few days.
01:07:21He said this is not based on a common
01:07:25threat, but a step taken to ensure each
01:07:28other's security. Look, it is clear that something
01:07:32arose out of a need. I want to discuss first
01:07:35what need it arose from, and then,
01:07:39of course, we will share excerpts
01:07:43from Mr. Fidan's speeches, and I will ask you to interpret
01:07:47what they mean exactly. Let's start with Professor Turgay first.
01:07:50Here, Mr. Fidan talks about the influence of non-regional
01:07:53actors. He says that increasing our regional
01:07:56ownership is important. In line with this triple alliance,
01:07:59the information we have gathered from his answers to the questions
01:08:02is that external hegemonies do not solve problems,
01:08:05they make them more acute. There is a will to address
01:08:08and stop instability in the region by ensuring greater
01:08:11integration and advancing the welfare of the region's
01:08:14people." Now,
01:08:17these are always said, meaning, Turkey has a role here,
01:08:21there are many questions about why Turkey is in this alliance.
01:08:25On the one hand, yes, Turkey is taking strong steps, because
01:08:28there was already an agreement between Pakistan and Saudi
01:08:32Arabia in previous years. The inclusion of Turkey
01:08:36here and the signals that a triple
01:08:39alliance will continue to expand in the future."
01:08:43Uh, let's understand what all this means for Turkey
01:08:46as an actor there, Professor. Now, for a long time, Turkey
01:08:50has had a foreign policy perspective, which we have also discussed
01:08:53through these screens, that centers on its own
01:08:57interests and does not reduce itself
01:09:00to any pact or bloc, but rather
01:09:04builds its interests on that axis, reflecting
01:09:08a foreign policy reflex of the Republic of Turkey. Therefore,
01:09:11it is a country that increases the diversity of its foreign policy
01:09:14at almost every level through cooperation with different
01:09:18actors. That is, while it has a dynamic relationship
01:09:22with Russia, it can also develop very warm relations
01:09:25with its NATO allies. Therefore, when we look at Turkey's
01:09:29relationship pattern in recent times, especially in the last
01:09:3310 years, we are facing a Republic of Turkey that is trying to build its own autonomy.
01:09:37Now, Mr. Fidan's critical statements in these explanations
01:09:40also eliminate many question
01:09:43marks, especially in the international press, there is a discussion
01:09:46about why this pact was established, that is,
01:09:49is it a common security threat or a security
01:09:53umbrella targeting an actor? Mr. Fidan, by directly
01:09:56referring to the question marks about Iran, stated
01:10:00that it does not target any state, and therefore,
01:10:03Iran or any other country is not the target of this pact,
01:10:07that it is a defense pact, a security umbrella,
01:10:10to be implemented on a more local scale.
01:10:14He has a statement here, which we have written down,
01:10:17"there is no common threat." Uh, as far as I understand,
01:10:21your statement explains this a little, and he also gave
01:10:24a very clear answer to the questions about Iran. We even
01:10:27opposed military operations carried out by the
01:10:31United States and Israel against Iran, so we stated
01:10:34that a military solution is not possible. He said
01:10:38that Iran is not a country that we directly target
01:10:42in terms of our security threat. Therefore,
01:10:45considering the possibility of other actors, potential actors, joining
01:10:49this pact, the framework will expand. Tomorrow,
01:10:52it is also possible for Iran to be included in this pact.
01:10:56Perhaps due to current security priorities, Saudi
01:11:00Arabia and Qatar may have very tense relations with Iran,
01:11:03but in the medium to long term, this equation may change.
01:11:07One of Fidan's critical remarks, I think, also answers
01:11:11your initial question, "why did this come about?"
01:11:14He emphasized that the hegemonic powers that intervene
01:11:17in the region do not solve problems, but create more problems.
01:11:21Here, even if he didn't mention names, it is very clear
01:11:24who is being referred to and which countries are being
01:11:27indicated. Therefore, the issue of the United States,
01:11:30especially with Trump, retreating from these regions in its national
01:11:34security strategy document and returning to the Western
01:11:38Hemisphere, means that if America's presence
01:11:42here is limited one day,
01:11:45what kind of equation will come into play? Who will limit
01:11:48Israel? These are being discussed. It is clear that
01:11:52Israel, especially after October 7th, is a security threat
01:11:56not only for Gaza and Palestine, but for the entire region.
01:11:59Therefore, the reason for the establishment of this
01:12:02pact, the reason for the establishment of this security umbrella, is both to demonstrate
01:12:06the capacity of countries to solve their own problems
01:12:10and defend themselves, and to show that a deterrence
01:12:14capability has been built in case of a possible threat,
01:12:17no matter where it comes from. Therefore, here,
01:12:21it is stated that the purpose of establishing this pact
01:12:24in case of a possible attack by any actor,
01:12:27not based on a perception of threat or its distinctiveness
01:12:31through an actor, is to build a deterrence capability. Therefore,
01:12:34in the period after this, that is, in the medium
01:12:37to long term, there is a possibility of this pact expanding
01:12:41with new actors. Now, we will especially focus on
01:12:44this deterrence, because uh, it is actually
01:12:47one of the reasons for its inception.
01:12:51This is not about a war or an act of aggression,
01:12:55but rather a deterrence policy designed to prevent
01:12:58such aggression, as far as we understand. And
01:13:01now, I assume many of us woke up one
01:13:05morning and there was such an agreement, but Mr. Fidan
01:13:09points out that this agreement has been prepared
01:13:11for two years. I would also like to ask about this
01:13:15preparation process, exactly two years. Let me quote
01:13:19Mr. Fidan's statements and then leave the floor to you.
01:13:23"I have been in continuous talks
01:13:25with the partners we signed with and the countries in the region
01:13:28for exactly two years and eight months. There was a need for a defense
01:13:31alliance to eliminate instability in the region," he states one of
01:13:35the justifications very clearly. "The countries that signed
01:13:38this alliance pledge not to be a threat to each other's security.
01:13:42We are now in solidarity internally, not against an external actor.
01:13:45The Mecca joint defense agreement is technically the same
01:13:49as Article 5 of the NATO Agreement on collective defense," he reiterates
01:13:52that there is no threat. Now,
01:14:00it mentions a period of 2 years and 8 months, almost 3
01:14:04years. Of course, not all of this is open to the public,
01:14:08but I know that the public has been aware of the possibility
01:14:10of such an alliance,
01:14:13albeit not very intensely,
01:14:16since about a year and a half ago. I mean, we journalists
01:14:20also know it. In fact, when the alliance agreement
01:14:23between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia
01:14:27was signed last week, this
01:14:30was also discussed. It was actually talked about
01:14:33that this could be a triple alliance, or even a quadruple
01:14:36alliance. Even back then, for example, Egypt is not in it today,
01:14:40but we are discussing that Egypt could have been in it too.
01:14:43Mr. Fidan also has a statement, "I don't want to name them,
01:14:47but there are other countries that want to join," he says,
01:14:50but he talks about Egypt
01:14:52a bit more openly, "we expect
01:14:55Egypt to join in the coming days."
01:14:59I remember him making a reference, so, as you also said, Seval,
01:15:03it's not like, "Oh, it suddenly occurred to us today, and we happened
01:15:06to make it on a Friday, let's go and sign an agreement
01:15:10in Mecca after prayers." That's not the case, of course.
01:15:13I mean, if you want to water down some sensitive
01:15:17and important issues or belittle their importance,
01:15:21it is debated like this, of course. And you understand
01:15:25why those who debate it are doing so. Some, for example,
01:15:28debate the issue by supporting Iran, expressing certain
01:15:32fears and so on. Another debates the issue
01:15:35from a different angle through
01:15:38NATO. Uh, but I find it
01:15:42very consistent with, of course, Turkey's emphasis
01:15:45on regionalism for quite some time,
01:15:48meaning regional alliances, regional economic
01:15:51cooperation, regional security, regional
01:15:55peace. We all know that we often
01:15:57hear these concepts from the mouths of
01:16:00actors who speak about Turkey's foreign policy.
01:16:04Especially since the wars in Gaza,
01:16:07Syria, and the attacks
01:16:11on Iran, that is,
01:16:13since this war and circle of fire
01:16:17came onto the agenda, Turkey's approach
01:16:20to regional issues has always been
01:16:23this... regional peace, regional
01:16:27stability, and the observations that hegemonic powers,
01:16:31when they come to the region, make problems more
01:16:34chronic and acute instead of solving them.
01:16:37These are things we often hear from both our President
01:16:41and Hakan Fidan. Therefore, the signing of this
01:16:45agreement is not surprising at all, it is very consistent.
01:16:48Now, there are evaluations like this, that Turkey's
01:16:52approach, which has been consistent with this agreement
01:16:55for a long time, is one of neutrality,
01:16:58mediation, moderating problems, and bringing
01:17:02them to a solution. Turkey is trying to show
01:17:05such a presence in all problem areas, especially
01:17:09in resolving disputes among regional
01:17:12actors. It has a very active
01:17:16and willing stance. uhm
01:17:19and it's like uhm a contradictory
01:17:22uhm situation, this is like that. Uhm the joint
01:17:26defense and cooperation agreement, uhm the Mecca
01:17:29Agreement, uhm it's like this is being talked about
01:17:32as a contradictory agreement, because
01:17:35what is being said, for example, if there is a problem
01:17:38between Pakistan and India, then
01:17:42these possible relations, uhm,
01:17:45if they are not good or there is a risk of turning
01:17:49into a hot conflict, uhm, countries like Saudi Arabia and Yemen
01:17:52are being discussed. What will Turkey's stance be? Uhm,
01:17:56will this not contradict the principle of neutrality?
01:18:00I think it's probably evaluated like
01:18:03this. In international agreements, Ali
01:18:06Hoca can open a perspective for us. Uhm,
01:18:10when Yemen fires a rocket at Saudi Arabia,
01:18:13will Turkey attack the Houthis or something? Such
01:18:17simplistic readings that don't grasp
01:18:21the importance of the agreement or its true perspective
01:18:25uhm, we come across them. But in the
01:18:28final analysis, when we look at
01:18:31the evaluations,
01:18:33uhm,
01:18:37the Vice President also had similar statements. Uhm,
01:18:41actually, it's very clearly an agreement
01:18:44that highlights deterrence and even
01:18:47perhaps in the long run, countries like Iran
01:18:51and Israel, which are seen as sources of instability
01:18:55in the region today, will perhaps have to straighten
01:18:58themselves out a bit. This is not about a hot conflict,
01:19:02but a kind of intimidation. Uhm,
01:19:05it can be evaluated like this. I don't think there's any harm in it.
01:19:09Let me add one more thing. For example, Egypt
01:19:12was seen as a candidate,
01:19:15bekleniyordu, olmadı, eee
01:19:19eee ama şu haliyle yani üç aktörün,
01:19:22üç ülkenin, hep üçün de kendine
01:19:25eee özel hususiyetleri olan üç ülkeden
01:19:29bahsediyoruz, yani Suudi Arabistan işte kendi işte
01:19:32enerji ve bölgesel konum itibariyle bir özgür ağırlığı var,
01:19:36Türkiye'nin işte kurumsal kap'. kapasitesi, savunma
01:19:39sanayinde geldiği nokta işte jeopolitik derinliği e
01:19:43Pakistan'ın eee işte eee bir nükleer güç
01:19:46olması vesaire Suudi Arabistan'la ilişkileri bu üç
01:19:50ülkenin eee çok da kalabalıklaşmadan
01:19:54belki eee eee böyle bir pakt
01:19:57imzalamış anlaşma imzalamış olması
01:20:00aslında birazcık daha böyle konuyu şey haline
01:20:03getirdi sayı çok fazla olsaydı belki bu kadar böyle yoğun.
01:20:08ve tartışmalı bir şeye dönüşmeyecekti,
01:20:11çünkü hani her üç ülkede eee baktığınızda
01:20:14kendi çapında özgül ağırlığı olan ve
01:20:18bölgesel denklemde eee oyun
01:20:21değiştirici aktörler olarak öne çıkıyorlar eee
01:20:25ama ben hani uzun vadede gerçekten hani bu bölgedeki
01:20:28işte kaotik durumun eee
01:20:31giderilmesine dönük de bir projeksiyon olarak
01:20:34değerlendiriyorum şimdi sayın Size de şeyi sorayım
01:20:38eee Sayın Fidan ekliyor diyor ki cumhurbaşkanımızın
01:20:41vizyonunda bizim üç ülkeyle sınırlı kalmamız eee
01:20:45büyümemiz gerekir kalmamamız büyümemiz gerekirse bütün
01:20:48ülkeleri bu çatının altında toplamamız var eee sayın cumhurbaşkanının
01:20:52talebiyle ve diyor bölgede kalıcı istikrarı getirecek en
01:20:56önemli adım bu bölge son yüzyıldır Osmanlı'nın çekilmesinden
01:20:59beri istikrarsızlıkla anılan bir bölge
01:21:02yani insan ister istemez aklına acaba bu ittifak eee
01:21:06orada bir hali hazır? da savaş var, o savaş acaba
01:21:10eee cephesi genişletilecek bir savaşsa bu onun bir
01:21:13eee araçlarından ileride vasıtalarından
01:21:17biri haline mi gelecek de o yüzden mi böyle anlaşmalar yapılıyor gibi soru işaretleri
01:21:21olabiliyor ama ee burada e bu anlaşmanın
01:21:24taraflarından Türkiye'nin duruşu ve yapılan
01:21:27açıklamalar bu yönde yani oradaki o istikrarı kurmak
01:21:31ve bir şekilde eee nizamı geliştirmek üzerine atılan
01:21:34adımlardan bahsediyor biraz bunun üzerinde duralım mı? kimler katılır,
01:21:38kimler gelir e nasıl genişler ve o istikrar nasıl
01:21:42sağlanır orada? şimdi biz uzun zaman istikrarın
01:21:45eee Ortadoğu'ya demokrasi gelmesiyle sağlanacağını
01:21:49zannediyorduk. istikrarın eee böyle büyük
01:21:52would come with the construction of tall buildings
01:21:56in the Gulf. We thought that stability
01:21:59would come with Western-style democracy blowing like
01:22:03a wind all over the Middle East, and with the competition
01:22:06between hamburger and cola companies,
01:22:09peace and stability would come to the Middle East.
01:22:11However, why does the President
01:22:15use this word "stability"? Why does he put forward
01:22:19the will that we need to expand this roof?
01:22:23Why does he make Hakan Fidan work day and night on this issue? Right? Why does he want this?
01:22:27Let's ask a question. Mr. President, why are you doing
01:22:30something like this? What is foreseen? I mean,
01:22:33what's happening that you're doing this? For example,
01:22:36I'm looking. "Let's take an example from history."
01:22:40In '34 and '37, what
01:22:44was happening then? What was the need
01:22:48for you to make the Balkan Pact and the Sadabat Pact?
01:22:51In '34 and '37, the world was rosy,
01:22:54elections were happening in the West, new governments were
01:22:57coming, etc. In the East,
01:23:00they were already trying to break free from the feudal structure.
01:23:03Turkey was weaving the homeland with iron networks from all four corners."
01:23:07Right, '34, '37.
01:23:11World War II broke out in '39. On October 7,
01:23:142023, an earthquake
01:23:16happened in the heart
01:23:19of the Middle East, in the Philippines. Uh-huh.
01:23:22This earthquake
01:23:25proved that nothing would be the same after this day.
01:23:29And Turkey was the most
01:23:32prepared state, intellectually
01:23:35and mentally, for this earthquake,
01:23:38for this crisis. What they did
01:23:41in Syria after that day is clear.
01:23:44Uhm,
01:23:46what they did in the Caucasus regarding the Azerbaijan issue
01:23:50is also clear. "They solved their problems with Iraq,
01:23:52and even in Hamas, the President said, a problem emerged at the last minute again,
01:23:56and he said, five articles, wait,
01:23:59will be signed. The signature he made them sign
01:24:02is also clear. We will talk about a region without terrorism,
01:24:06we will talk about a Turkey without terrorism. It is not right to see a Turkey without
01:24:09terrorism and the Mecca Agreement as very separate issues,
01:24:13because a Turkey without terrorism,
01:24:15a region without terrorism is the beginning of this projection.
01:24:19And why does the President
01:24:21want this? Because it is now very
01:24:24clear that Hakan Fidan is not Iran,
01:24:27not the other one. He doesn't name countries, but
01:24:30these defense agreements are not against one country,
01:24:34but a threat to all countries. He tells Israel,
01:24:37"You killed children there, you bombed the other,
01:24:41you did whatever to the other. The reason you can do this
01:24:44is that we couldn't deter you."
01:24:47Now,
01:24:49in plain language, "Do it if
01:24:52you can." Uh-huh. Egypt
01:24:56will also join, its turn will come too. "Do it if you can." President
01:24:59Erdoğan wants to genuinely bring all countries
01:25:03in the region politically and militarily
01:25:07under this roof. The development road with Iraq,
01:25:10and other projects,
01:25:13are attempts to bring those who cannot yet join
01:25:16this roof economically into the first roof. Let's remember
01:25:20the founding process of the European Union. These are moves
01:25:23to bring them under this roof. All of them have a political
01:25:26purpose. All of them, like '34 and
01:25:29'37, are aimed at protecting
01:25:32themselves against the coming
01:25:34danger, protecting the region.
01:25:38Not just protecting, but also intimidating others.
01:25:42Pakistan, I mean, Azerbaijan is
01:25:45our closest friend, our favorite country.
01:25:48Turk, Muslim. Our presidents currently
01:25:52address each other as brothers. But Azerbaijan
01:25:55doesn't have nuclear power. Pakistan does. Pakistan
01:25:58is there. What we experienced with Saudi
01:26:02Arabia, let's not talk about it one by one today. He doesn't say anything when things are good,
01:26:05but we had big problems with Saudi Arabia.
01:26:08But Saudi Arabia has oil, it has money.
01:26:12And it's Saudi Arabia, holy lands. Strategically,
01:26:16it's almost in the middle, like we are a bridge.
01:26:20"In the Middle East, Saudi Arabia is in the middle
01:26:23of every place that can be a source of threat.
01:26:27Why do we say Egypt? In the Middle East,
01:26:31two countries are called two great powers, one is Turkey, one is
01:26:34Egypt. Where Turkey and Egypt are,
01:26:38they will hold the strings of the Eastern Mediterranean. When Egypt is there,
01:26:42it will not only be the Middle East, but also the Eastern Mediterranean,
01:26:45because Cyprus is our second homeland,
01:26:48our yavru vatan." "These are
01:26:52examples that we can also give from earlier times.
01:26:56I gave the closest example from before World War II. We also
01:26:58experienced bad examples of this before World War I. But
01:27:02Turkey is currently in an incredible way,
01:27:05correctly interpreting the earthquake that happened on October 7,
01:27:092023, and not limiting the projection
01:27:13to the Middle East. It is directly related
01:27:16to the Blue Homeland, to the agreement signed with Libya,
01:27:19to the activities in the Eastern Mediterranean,
01:27:22to Iraq, and to the activities
01:27:26in the Caucasus geography. And
01:27:28hopefully, as Hakan Fidan pointed out today,
01:27:32these efforts will bear fruit.
01:27:36You say they will. Uhm,
01:27:39based on what you said, let me add Mr. Fidan's
01:27:42statements: "When we look at the foreign policy stances of Saudi Arabia,
01:27:46Pakistan, and Turkey, they are not expansionist countries. They are busy
01:27:50with their own troubles and development within their own borders."
01:27:53He adds, "No country that does not attack us is our target."
01:27:57Ali Hoca, I want to ask this: After the war between Russia
01:28:01and Ukraine, Continental Europe
01:28:04had different alliance quests,
01:28:08outside the European Union, outside NATO.
01:28:11Afterwards, we look at the Middle Eastern countries.
01:28:14They also have serious concerns regarding guarantor
01:28:18countries after this Iran, United States,
01:29:03Israel War. We see that they
01:29:05are making efforts to develop their security
01:29:08industry. Uhm,
01:29:11here too,
01:29:13uhm, if we look at the Middle East, we know
01:29:17that America acts as a norm-setting actor here.
01:29:20But it somewhat abandoned this role of being
01:29:24a norm-setting actor after 2011. Everyone who resorted to force
01:29:27uhm, remember Saddam's Iraq.
01:29:30It suppressed those who caused problems,
01:29:33protected countries against each other. It went from
01:29:36being a good hegemon to a hegemon that resorted to force,
01:29:40especially in this recent period. And in 2011,
01:29:43it already gave signs that it would focus on Asia
01:29:46and somewhat neglect this region. The countries here, of course,
01:29:50uhm, within themselves,
01:29:53they started to increase their weapon technologies
01:29:57and material capabilities. Turkey is one of the most important
01:30:00of these. At the same time, they diversified their allies.
01:30:04So, we are living in such an order. The old order
01:30:08is no more. Uhm,
01:30:10this is one thing, but the agreement between these
01:30:14three states is a bit more than that. There is another
01:30:18dimension, a line, that has emerged here.
01:30:21India, Israel, and
01:30:24Greece. I mean, this line creates
01:30:28conditions that these three countries will not like,
01:30:31especially Israel's excessive revisionism,
01:30:34its aim to change the order in the region. These countries,
01:30:38of course, are not aggressive. Turkey,
01:30:40Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, they don't want the order to change.
01:30:44In fact, they want it to calm down. These three countries,
01:30:48especially Israel, don't want America to withdraw from here. They want
01:30:52it to be here. Mr. Hakan Fidan's statement is significant.
01:30:55He made a statement to the effect that "we don't want hegemons here."
01:30:59Israel wants it here so it can hide behind it and attack
01:31:03left and right as it wishes. "Let me make all conditions suitable
01:31:07for myself, attack Iran, attack Palestine, etc."
01:31:10But Pakistan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia do not want such a change.
01:31:14The change they want is this: there should be no hegemon here,
01:31:18the order in the region should be established by regional states,
01:31:21and there should be a deterrence against countries that cause problems here.
01:31:24So, did the countries agree that there was a void there before?
01:31:27Which countries agreed? How much of a quest did they embark
01:31:30on before? Yes. Is this a beginning, a milestone?
01:31:34I think so. Uhm, America might not
01:31:38be able to come here anymore. I mean, it might be experiencing
01:31:40its last visits to Iran. And look, it is said
01:31:44that America doesn't have enough ammunition for the discussions.
01:31:48That's an interesting situation, but Trump's recent statements
01:31:51"Iran doesn't want us to hit them." He said, "We are about
01:31:55to reach an agreement," which completely confused
01:31:58us. On the other hand, newspapers are full of news about America.
01:32:11They are making news, which means that America's power
01:32:14might not be enough here anymore. And anyway,
01:32:18America doesn't want to be here. It wants to focus
01:32:21on the Far East, Asia. So, a void will form here,
01:32:24and it has already formed. There is an Israel
01:32:28that is taking advantage of this void, attacking left and right.
01:32:31At the same time, other states,
01:32:34we shouldn't just point fingers at Israel. I mean, Baye also
01:32:37acted with Israel here. Uhm,
01:32:41Greece, similarly,
01:32:44is trying to expand its own area in the natural
01:32:47gas issue in the Eastern Mediterranean. Let's not just say Israel.
01:32:50These countries, like Turkey,
01:32:53want there to be no external actor here,
01:32:56there to be cooperation between states here,
01:33:00there to be stability here. No war, because there
01:33:04is constant war, constant instability. This affects
01:33:07all countries negatively, economically, humanely.
01:33:10I mean, people fleeing
01:33:13war came to Turkey, as you know, from Iraq,
01:33:17Syria. They are also going to other countries.
01:33:21At the same time, this instability here
01:33:24is hindering trade. I mean,
01:33:27Turkey and
01:33:30Pakistan, Saudi Arabia
01:33:33are looking for a different regional order here.
01:33:36I mean, they want a more stable, more peaceful
01:33:40order decided by the regional countries. So, it's not against
01:33:44a specific actor, but also against a specific actor. I mean,
01:33:47who wants to disrupt stability here? Who is trying to bring foreign
01:33:51powers here? Israel. So, it has other dimensions.
01:33:55Let me also mention this: Pakistan has nuclear power,
01:33:58but Pakistan has started leaning heavily on China, especially after 2011,
01:34:02after 2013, sorry. Currently,
01:34:0580% of Pakistan's weapons come from China.
01:34:08So, Pakistan's dependence on China has increased greatly. To balance this,
01:34:12Pakistan improved its relations with America a bit during Trump's term.
01:34:15It was bad before that, after the Osama bin Laden incident.
01:34:19And it is also trying to reduce its dependence by developing
01:34:23its relations with other regional countries. From Saudi Arabia's perspective,
01:34:26it is a state completely dependent on America, especially in terms
01:34:30of security. During the Iraq-Iran war,
01:34:32and in the face of Israel's aggression, America didn't
01:34:36do much. Therefore, they no longer trust America
01:34:39as much as before. They are also doing things to reduce this dependence.
01:34:43For example, they have interactions with China. Saudi Arabia
01:34:46also has interactions with regional countries. We are already
01:34:50the ones who started this. We also had a very large military
01:34:53dependence on America, but after 2016,
01:34:57especially with the FETÖ incident and the YPG
01:35:01issue in Syria, we clearly understood
01:35:03that we could not trust America. And to increase our
01:35:07strength, steps were taken
01:35:11to develop the defense industry internally. Secondly,
01:35:15Turkey brought regional alliances much more to the forefront.
01:35:18Those were bad times for Turkey. I mean, there was the "precious loneliness"
01:35:22thing, if you remember, during the Arab Spring.
01:35:26We also experienced a trauma in foreign policy.
01:35:29After that, the normalization policy came into play.
01:35:33Now, on top of normalization, making long-term and solid
01:35:36agreements with regional states. This is a very important
01:35:40thing. I mean, when states attack each other,
01:35:44they go on common defense. You know that states
01:35:47make agreements among themselves, and they remain on paper.
01:35:50There's not much there. But this is not such an agreement.
01:35:54I think this is an entry into a new era.
01:35:58We can see it as an introduction. Now,
01:36:00it doesn't seem very possible for secondary
01:36:04states, states with secondary power, to establish their
01:36:08security in that way, dependent on great powers.
01:36:11And in this region, uhm,
01:36:15the rapprochement of countries that were far apart
01:36:18before, and this region-oriented approach
01:36:21is not just for us, it's also valid for Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia
01:36:25didn't want to do much in the region for a long time,
01:36:29because you leaned on America and it protected you.
01:36:33Uhm, America was also completely here with all its might,
01:36:36nobody could do anything to anyone. That era is over. Now we are in
01:36:40a new era. Can I ask Ali Hoca this question
01:36:44now? There is an entity called
01:36:46Syria. Turkey is very closely interested,
01:36:50and so is Saudi Arabia. I think that in the medium term,
01:36:54not even long term, in the medium term,
01:36:56perhaps Syria could also
01:36:59join this agreement.
01:37:03I don't know what Ali Hoca will say.
01:37:06Uhm, the other Gulf countries,
01:37:09small countries, uhm,
01:37:13Saudi Arabia,
01:37:21suffered damage. And all these countries have a very significant
01:37:24Shiite population. Uhm,
01:37:28this agreement, when America withdraws from the region,
01:37:31hypothetically, maybe not overnight, but in the
01:37:35final analysis, there is such a projection that America
01:37:39doesn't want to meddle much in these places. In such
01:37:43an environment,
01:37:45perhaps this agreement could also have an effect
01:37:49so that these small countries don't turn back
01:37:52into Iran's sphere of influence, or rather,
01:37:56don't turn into Iran's sphere of influence. So, in a way,
01:37:59there is a power sharing here, that is, "This region
01:38:03is truly our region, and we will decide
01:38:07how much power sharing will take place,
01:38:10who will have what kind of relationship with whom." It's also saying
01:38:13that in a sense. If we compare Israel,
01:38:17both were actually very revisionist states. But the difference
01:38:20is that Iran was not trying to achieve this through any external
01:38:24actor. Both act unilaterally, but they don't act with others.
01:38:27If you notice, the states they act with
01:38:31are their proxy forces. The regime in Syria was also like that.
01:38:34Now, if you look at this agreement,
01:38:38there were no proxy forces here. All three countries are in coordination
01:38:42with each other on an equal level. There is a third thing.
01:38:45I mean, Iran has a vision of order for a region,
01:38:49unilateral, completely its own sphere of influence,
01:38:52especially, of course, the influence of Shiism
01:38:56here. On one side, there is Israel, which constantly
01:38:59wants to keep America here, to cause instability,
01:39:02and to benefit from this instability.
01:39:05And there is a third group of countries, led by countries
01:39:09like Turkey and Saudi Arabia. They also want there to be no
01:39:13external power in the region, especially for Turkey,
01:39:16there should be stability, a civilization should develop here,
01:39:20because they are countries that can take action.
01:39:23Exactly. I mean, think of Europe.
01:39:26The reason for Europe's development within itself
01:39:30after World War II is the end of wars.
01:39:33I mean, wars will end so that the economy can develop.
01:39:37Who invests in a war zone, or, I don't know,
01:39:41how can people's lives develop in a place where there is war?
01:39:44For a very long time, the Middle East has completely
01:39:48turned into a battlefield for great powers and regional
01:39:51powers like Israel. I mean,
01:39:55all opportunities for economic development, cultural development,
01:39:59and civilizational development have been eliminated here. These three countries,
01:40:03Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and even Pakistan, we can add here,
01:40:06maybe Pakistan is a bit more outside, but especially Saudi Arabia, Turkey.
01:40:10I think Egypt will also join this. Small states.
01:40:14They won't join, I think. For such countries,
01:40:17uhm, having a strong country
01:40:20in their region is a great threat for them,
01:40:23because they cannot protect themselves
01:40:27against them. They usually try to balance them by inviting
01:40:31an external power, by following a hegemon.
01:40:35But they felt great concerns during the process
01:40:38we are going through. Therefore, they may feel the need for such a thing.
01:40:42Let me add this, uhm, I'm not saying that they
01:40:46will remain indifferent to these developments in the region and act with America.
01:40:49There is an expression in international relations called hedging.
01:40:52They will do that. They will interact with these states in the region,
01:40:56especially Turkey, Saudi Arabia, but they will not cut
01:41:00their ties with America. Because when they cut ties with America,
01:41:03the fear of becoming dependent may emerge there, a balance policy,
01:41:07that is, consider the Gulf countries, Saudi Arabia,
01:41:10imagine them becoming dependent on it, that is, it's not
01:41:13a very good scenario for them, you say, can I add
01:41:17something very briefly, a perspective, that is,
01:41:20a few years ago we were talking about the Abraham
01:41:24Accords, now where have we come to.
01:41:27"Actually, maybe we can bring this agreement
01:41:31to mind, that is, the issues that were discussed
01:41:34before the Gaza genocide,
01:41:37such as Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, whether Qatar would join
01:41:41or not, they were even talking about Syria,
01:41:44and this agreement was not
01:41:47in favor of these regional countries, but
01:41:51against them, actually forcing all those
01:41:55countries to have good relations with Israel."
01:41:59agreement,
01:42:05that is, a possible agreement, and maybe it is possible to read
01:42:08it through this agreement signed today,
01:42:11and let's also look at it, what you said was
01:42:15important, let's see what
01:42:17capacity these states have, let my friends bring
01:42:21it up, let's look at it now.
01:42:24Turkey, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, what kind of powers are they?
01:42:28That is, when these three powers come together,
01:42:30it makes sense. As Turgay Hodja pointed out just now, I saw
01:42:34that President Erdoğan was behind
01:42:37the foreign ministers, bureaucrats, everyone who
01:42:41worked hard for 2 years and 8 months on the agreement, they bring
01:42:44it, the president reads it from the beginning,
01:42:48it caught my attention, and it also happened on the development road,
01:42:52it happened there too, I saw him reading the agreement from the beginning,
01:42:56he signs it at the end, he read it all, he nodded his head, and then he signed.
01:42:58That's interesting, thank you very much for sharing that, hocam,
01:43:02let's start like this, now Turkey's power,
01:43:05Pakistan's possession of nuclear
01:43:09power, of course, changes this agreement
01:43:12to another place. Considering Saudi Arabia's oil
01:43:16reserves, the most important power in the region
01:43:19in this sense, Turkey's ability to take
01:43:22action and host
01:43:25many agreements,
01:43:29its skill and capability in coordination
01:43:31undoubtedly make this a completely different power. Let's
01:43:35evaluate it like this. Now,
01:43:39of course, in terms of these power multipliers, the coming together
01:43:42of three countries indicates a very serious capacity.
01:43:45Especially the Republic of Turkey's emergence
01:43:49with its positively differentiated aspects in the defense
01:43:52industry, which we discussed through these screens and wrote
01:43:56about in our columns, is not only in Turkey, that is,
01:44:01but also in critical regions where it exports its defense industry capacity,
01:44:04it shows this transformation, and the very serious
01:44:08compliments towards Turkey's defense industry in the international
01:44:11arena already positioned Turkey as a positively
01:44:15differentiated actor in this sense. Just now, Ali Hodja pointed
01:44:18out a point, that is, Pakistan was previously more dependent
01:44:22on China for weapons, but perhaps
01:44:25after this, the weapons developed
01:44:28here are already being sold to Saudi Arabia and Pakistan,
01:44:32so perhaps it will be possible to increase this capacity
01:44:36after this, Ali Hodja, Pakistan
01:44:39is one of the countries that buys the most weapons in the world,
01:44:42according to the latest figures, 66%,
01:44:45and these weapons are generally bought from large countries,
01:44:49instead of buying from large countries, entering into joint
01:44:52production with countries at its own level is a relief for
01:44:56Pakistan strategically, that is, this could be a motivation
01:44:59for them to prefer such a thing, yes, of course,
01:45:02as the dependency relations decrease, the autonomy of the country increases.
01:45:06There is a very critical issue between the three actors. From
01:45:10now on, joint military exercises will be held,
01:45:14this has already been declared to the public, in addition, there is an issue
01:45:17whose signs we see even if it is not directly declared,
01:45:21I think it will also assume a very critical function
01:45:23in terms of reducing dependency, which is that the countries
01:45:27will jointly increase that capacity in areas such as the
01:45:30defense industry where Turkey is a pioneer, and they will
01:45:34take common steps. I mean this: Turkey
01:45:37is already a pioneer in many areas, and there are already
01:45:41defense industry moves that are in the incubation
01:45:44period. There may be actors who can participate in these,
01:45:47in terms of financing or combining other capacities,
01:45:50especially since consulting between Saudi Arabia
01:45:53and Turkey was being discussed about 2 months ago,
01:45:57and some of it was conveyed to the public. Now, when we look at it,
01:46:00it is clear that Turkey needs financing to develop
01:46:03this capacity in some areas. It is highly probable
01:46:07that this financing will be provided by the Saudis.
01:46:10Pakistan's place in this equation is already
01:46:13unique in terms of civil-military relations,
01:46:17Pakistan is already a very different example in political
01:46:20science literature, but its nuclear capacity here is
01:46:24one of the most important factors that increases deterrence
01:46:27within this tripartite mechanism. Now, on the other hand,
01:46:31there is also a dynamic reflected in the numbers
01:46:35that Turkey already stands out in the ranking
01:46:38of the strongest armies within NATO, that is,
01:46:41Turkey has more than 890 thousand
01:46:44personnel. The different meanings of its minimum
01:46:47capacity in the personnel inventory, especially in the
01:46:51maritime domain, we talked a lot about UAVs and SİHAs,
01:46:55but Turkey also has very serious breakthroughs in the maritime
01:46:58domain. Now, when the capacities of these three countries come together,
01:47:02these countries also place all actors that could directly
01:47:05threaten them in a very different equation through deterrence.
01:47:09It has also been discussed
01:47:19to make an agreement with Southern Cyprus, Israel, and the United States to prevent this, and
01:47:22the US withdrawal from this equation, on the grounds that
01:47:25it was not very profitable, Israel is actually
01:47:28the primary threat in the region, even if it is not
01:47:32directly stated. This primary threat is not only
01:47:36at the security level, but also in agreements
01:47:40related to other maritime jurisdiction areas and in
01:47:43cases of violation of these agreements, Israel emerges.
01:47:46The most important feature we observed in Israel after
01:47:50October 7, for the regional countries, not just for Palestine,
01:47:53is that it has become a critical security threat, and Turkey
01:47:57already keeps this projection very alive.
01:47:59Especially, the very excessive redirection
01:48:03of the state apparatus mechanism towards a different
01:48:07direction by politicians is also a global
01:48:10threat. Therefore, the states that foresee this threat
01:48:14create this deterrence under a common security umbrella.
01:48:17That is, in this issue of expansion, what I attach
01:48:21importance to, which also appears in all international
01:48:24press, is that if Egypt is included in this equation,
01:48:28Israel is seriously concerned about
01:48:31it, and indeed, when we look at the Israeli and United
01:48:35Arab Emirates press, we see that they are
01:48:38very uneasy about this security umbrella. However, there
01:48:42is nothing to be uneasy about for them, but the
01:48:45issue here is to create an equation that will prevent
01:48:49Israel's expansionist policy. This capacity,
01:48:52demonstrated by numbers, figures, and material power
01:48:55capacity, shows how deep
01:48:59the deterrence is. That is, you
01:49:03know what you will encounter if you attack
01:49:06any country, one of them. This
01:49:09prevents that attack. What was the most important
01:49:12dynamic in the Cold War? Perhaps in terms of the
01:49:15origin of the word "cold", it was the deterrence created
01:49:19by nuclear power. Now, since a deterrence
01:49:22mechanism has been established, I believe that Israel
01:49:26will evaluate its place and position in the region
01:49:29much more rationally in the future. Iran is also
01:49:32in a much more chaotic situation today compared
01:49:35to the conditions before the war. Although
01:49:38it has achieved some gains against Israel and the United
01:49:42States, especially regarding the position of
01:49:45Hormuz, it will now suspend
01:49:49its claim to be a threat in the region
01:49:52through Shiite expansionism, inevitably, because if
01:49:56Egypt also joins the countries we are talking
01:50:00about, a very important dynamic will emerge for the region.
01:50:03It is already progressing through these pacts,
01:50:06and the fact that the threat of both Israel
01:50:10and Iran, although not completely
01:50:13eliminated, will at least decrease to a certain
01:50:16extent, citing its instability as the
01:50:20reason, Israel has developed a relationship with the United States
01:50:24and managed to keep America in the region. If Iran ceases
01:50:28to be a threat, then the primary threat in the region
01:50:32will remain Israel. Before that, Iran was not a threat
01:50:35to either Turkey or the Saudis. It was a threat, but different
01:50:39diplomatic channels were activated to eliminate
01:50:43this threat. Especially China made a serious effort
01:50:46to bring Saudi Arabia and Iran together, because
01:50:50if they separated, a more chaotic situation could arise
01:50:53in the region, in favor of America and Israel.
01:50:56Therefore, the establishment of such mechanisms in the
01:51:00region is also a very critical period for the independence
01:51:04of the regional countries. Now, we have actually talked
01:51:07a little about it, but I think we need to look
01:51:11at the economic dimension of the issue. We also have the data
01:51:15we prepared for that, let them come up. Let's
01:51:18look at Turkey's strategic power. It has an economic
01:51:21size of 1.6 trillion dollars. It is strong.
01:51:23And there is also something else,
01:51:27it is important in terms of creating
01:51:30secure energy lines in a world that is experiencing
01:51:33an energy crisis. If there is stability there,
01:51:37then those problems that would drag the world
01:51:40into such a big crisis will also be eliminated.
01:51:44The establishment or drawing of new energy lines or alternative
01:51:48energy lines could be a little better. For example,
01:51:51Turkey's strategic power is located at the intersection
01:51:55of strong pipelines. Production continues in the Sakarya Gas Field
01:51:59in the Black Sea, and oil is being produced in Gabar.
01:52:03Turkey also stands out with its renewable energy capacity,
01:52:06and there are studies for the Akkuyu Nuclear
01:52:09Power Plant.
01:52:12petrol rezervi var, neredeyse bölgede en
01:52:15güçlü değil mi? bildiğimiz kadarıyla en fazla petrolün
01:52:18bulunduğu ülke. yaklaşık 9 trilyon metre3üp doğal
01:52:22gaz. rezervi var dünyanın en büyük ham petrol
01:52:24ihracatçısı OPEC'in en etkili ülkelerinden
01:52:28biri olarak öne çıkıyor Suudi Arabistan inanılmaz büyük bir
01:52:32ekonomik güçten bahsediyoruz. Pakistan'da
01:52:34ne var? 450 milyar dolarlık ekonomik büyüklüğe sahip
01:52:38eee orada da yine en büyük linyit rezervlerinden
01:52:42biri olması eee bakımından öne çıkıyor. Eee yine
01:52:45doğalgaz üretiminin yapıldığı eee önemli
01:52:48ölçüde bölgeler var. Yüksek hidroelektrik potansiyeli
01:52:51var. iki nükleer santralde toplam altı
01:52:55reaktör bulunuyor, bütün bunlar hem
01:52:58bölgedeki o istikrar açısından hem de Türkiye'nin kazanımları
01:53:01ekonomik kazanımları olarak nasıl yansır, nasıl dönüşür evet yani aslında
01:53:05birlikte kazanabileceğiniz bir ortam
01:53:07yaratırsanız birlikte kazanırsınız yani
01:53:10işte eee o hem aslında işte kültür
01:53:14gibi işte refah seviyesi gibi hem de işte
01:53:17yatırımlar gibi pek çok alanda aslında işte
01:53:20harcamadığınız eee eee çalıştığınız bir
01:53:24ortam yani istikrar ortamı öyle bir ortam aslında şimdi hani
01:53:28bölgedeki bu kaotik durumun eee bir düzene
01:53:32eee dönüşmesi ve bu işbirliklerinin de
01:53:35bir eee ürüne dönüşmesi vasatı
01:53:38herhalde eee işte uzunca süredir beklediğimiz arzu
01:53:42ettiğimiz eee bu işte hani ortadoğu
01:53:45dediğimiz eee devamlı işte kan gözyaşı
01:53:49savaşla andığımız bölgenin belki
01:53:52işte. "geleceğinde güzel günler
01:53:55eee görecek, göreceğiz hep beraber diyebiliriz, eee yani
01:53:59tabii ki bu hani içinde işte savaş,
01:54:02uçakların, silahların vesairenin eee konuşulduğu
01:54:06anlaşmaların eee eee
01:54:09hani işte barışla şunla bununla taçlanacağını
01:54:13düşünmek ilk etapta hani biraz tuhaf eee ya da
01:54:16çelişkili gelebilir ama işte
01:54:19eee uluslararası ilişkilerin
01:54:22reel politiğin eee araçları da bunlar, yani bunlara
01:54:26sahip değilseniz barışı da konuşamıyorsunuz,
01:54:29dolayısıyla hani Türkiye açısından Pakistan, Suudi
01:54:32Arabistan, işte Mısır bu ülkelerin. "birinde olan
01:54:35öbüründe yok, öbüründe olan diğerinde yok, dolayısıyla bir güçleri
01:54:39birleştirerek e ve bence şu da
01:54:42hani aktörler açısından
01:54:45önemli diye düşünüyorum, ya da böyle bir gözlem de yapabileceğimiz
01:54:49bir şey oluştu, ortam oluştu, aslında herkes de bir anlamda artık
01:54:52pragmatik, mesela işte Selman'dan konuşuyoruz değil mi hani Suudi
01:54:56Arabistan veliaht prensi eee
01:54:59baktığınızda aslında hiç de ideolojik olmayan çok da böyle
01:55:02pragmatik bir lidere dönüştü zaman için'. içerisinde işte
01:55:06Türkiye'nin eee meseleleri ele alışında işte
01:55:09uluslararası eee krizleri bile hani daha
01:55:12böyle parça üzerinden hani sorunun tamamını
01:55:16göğüslemeden eee çözülebilecek yönleriyle
01:55:20ele alan bir yaklaşımı var bütün meselelere böyle
01:55:23yaklaşıyor ve hiç kimseyle kategorik olarak eee
01:55:26köprüleri atmayan bir siyaset izliyor eee
01:55:29Pakistan'ın diğer ülkelerle ilişkilerine Türkiye ile ilişkisine
01:55:33bakıyoruz son derece işte tarihsel derin. olan yani Pakistan-Hindistan
01:55:37ayrımı olmadan bile başlayan yani işte Kurtuluş Savaşı yıllarına
01:55:41ee demirleyebileceğimiz
01:55:44çok yakın ilişkileri var. Suudi Arabistan'la Pakistan'ın ilişkileri
01:55:47özellikle askeri düzeyde çok eee yakın. Yani
01:55:51işte Suudi Arabistan Ordusunun eee önemli
01:55:54bir kısmının işte Pakistanlı askerlerden oluştuğu vesaire
01:55:57söyleniyor. Yani aslında hani bu anlaşmayı mümkün kılacak
01:56:01ee ekonomik, işte sosyolojik.
01:56:05eee tarihsel pek çok araca zaten eee
01:56:08sahip olan ülkelerden bahsediyoruz, dolayısıyla aslında dönüp
01:56:12baktığınızda hani bugüne kadar neden olmadı
01:56:15diyebileceğimiz bir vasat eee içerisindeyiz eee
01:56:19dolayısıyla ben hani son tahlilde hakikaten
01:56:22eee Turgay Hoca'nın ifade ettiği şey e bence çok
01:56:25doğru hani burada bir kazanan kaybeden diye
01:56:29bakmaksızın eee konuştuğumuzda da ama hani
01:56:33uzun orta ve uzun vadeli. projeksiyonda
01:56:36bölgeye barışın ve istikrarın gelmesi için iki
01:56:40aktörün kendi alanına çekilmesi eee
01:56:43çok önem arz ediyor ve bu nevi
01:56:46anlaşmalar belki bunu icbar edecek etki doğurabilirler
01:56:49bunlardan bir tanesi kuşkusuz İran eee ama asıl
01:56:53asıl olarak tabii ki hani son 2-3 yıldır eee artık hani
01:56:57gemi hazıya almış olan eee İsrail'i görüyoruz ve
01:57:00bu İsrail-İran arasındaki
01:57:02eee i ki birbirinin saldırganlığını
01:57:06meşrulaştırıcı düzeyde olması da zaten bölgeye çok büyük
01:57:10zarar verdi, eee bu bakımdan baktığımızda
01:57:14da eee son derece hani
01:57:17müspet sonuçlar doğurabilecek bir anlaşma diye
01:57:21nitelendirebiliriz. şimdi eee dünya basınında
01:57:24aslında nasıl yer aldı, neler söylediler bu anlaşma
01:57:28için, biraz ona da bakmak lazım, yani dünya ne
01:57:31düşünüyor? eee Trump'ın tebrik etmiş olması bunu?
01:57:40değerlendirmek lazım eee çok affedersin Hasan yani
01:57:44İsrail'i bir şekilde şimdi İran konusunda ya işte diğer
01:57:46saldırganlığı konusunda da zaman zaman böyle tehdip edici
01:57:50söylemleri oldu Trump'ın ama son tahlilde
01:57:52eee İsrail'in
01:57:55saldırganlığını
01:57:58son verecek bir aksiyon almadı ama Suriye'de de mesela
01:58:01eee İsrail'i sınırlandırdı
01:58:04Amerika. "bence bu anlaşmanın da İsrail'i
01:58:07sınırlandırıcı bir tarafı olduğunu
01:58:11Trump da görüyor, Netanyahu'dan
01:58:14sıkılan Trump her fırsatı değerlendiriyor diyebilir miyiz bunun
01:58:17için evet şimdi dünya basınına bir bakalım
01:58:20eee CBS News ne diyor üç
01:58:24bölgesel güç işbirliğini pekiştirdi eee
01:58:27ne zaman böyle hani Avrupa ülkelerinden ve Amerika
01:58:30Birleşik Devletleri'nden yapılan bir şeyle Ortadoğu'da iyi bir şey
01:58:34bahsedilse." de iyi bir şekilde bahsedilse, insan
01:58:37ister istemez bir korkuyor ama eee neticede yapılan
01:58:41açıklamara bakıyorsunuz, oradaki gerçekten oluşacak bir
01:58:44boşluğun eee çok akıllıca doldurulmasının planlanmış
01:58:48olmasının eee gayet makul mantıklı olduğunu
01:58:50düşünüyorsunuz neyse ki rahat nefes alıyor insan.
01:58:54Bloomberg ne diyor? Mekke'de yeni bir Ortadoğu güvenlik çerçevesi
01:58:57şekilleniyor diyor. BBC'ye
01:59:00bakıyoruz, Mekke Antlaşması dünyanın en güçlü üç Müslüman ülkesi
01:59:03tarafından imzalan.
01:59:06eee diğer basında nasıl yer almış tekrar devam edelim
01:59:10Lemont ne diyor Suudi Arabistan diyor Türkiye Pakistan Mekke'de eşi
01:59:14görülmemiş bir Savunma ittifakına imza attı eee
01:59:17yine Yungwelt de diyor ki yeni bir bölgesel güç bloku ortaya
01:59:21çıkıyor. Pentapostagma da diyor ki Mekke
01:59:25Antlaşması Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan için diplomatik bir
01:59:28zafer. El Cezire anlaşma bölgesel
01:59:31karışıklıkların ortasında imzalandı.
01:59:35the indian express de diyor ki anlaşma bölgesel dengelerin
01:59:38değiştiği bir dönemde imzalandı şeklinde
01:59:42başlıklar atıyorlar hocam bir şey yüksek lisans ve doktora
01:59:46öğrencileri için ya da alan? çalışanlar için şöyle
01:59:49bir eee zenginlik de ortaya çıkıyor, mesela 2010'dan bu
01:59:52yana Türkiye'nin özellikle uluslararası basında ama
01:59:56daha ziyade Batı basında çerçevelenme biçimlerine
02:00:00bakıldığında çok değişik bir grafikle
02:00:02karşılaşabilirler, biz ben azından tingtengçiliğimiz
02:00:05döneminde batı basınındaki Türkiye içeriklerine odaklanan, onu
02:00:09çalışan birisi olarak eğrinin çok farklı
02:00:12dinamiklerle bambaşka yerlere doğru gittiği bir
02:00:16dönemdeyiz, bu açıdan. da çok zengin ya da değişen yönünü
02:00:19gösteriyor aslında Türkiye'nin
02:00:22hım Hasan Basrak ne manşetler gördük diyor Tur nereden nereye
02:00:26geldik gibi bir şey anladım ben Türkiye belli
02:00:29belli parametreler belli konular üzerinden tedhip edilmeye
02:00:33çalışılan eee nüfuz altında tutulmaya çalışılan bir ülke
02:00:37konumundayken artık farklı konularla başlıklarla
02:00:40içerik haline geliyor içerik üretebiliyor aslında
02:00:44evet evet Hasan Basak. "güzel
02:00:48manşetler gazetecilik açısından güzel, tabii ki mesela
02:00:51BBC dünyanın en güçlü üç Müslüman devleti
02:00:55demiş evet mesela o vurgular hani
02:00:57İngiltere'den bakarken öyle görmüş oradan bakılınca ya bunlar çok güçlü
02:01:01bunlar bir araya geliyor olmuş Yunanlılar Erdoğan'ın zaferi
02:01:05demiş tabii
02:01:08Lomont takıntılı olduğu yerde bir
02:01:11öncekisi bir sonrakinde diyor ki ben
02:01:15okuyayım size Suudi Arabistan." Hindistan
02:01:17Mekke'de eşi görülmemiş bir savunma ittifakına imza attı Fransızlar
02:01:21eşi görülmemiş demişti evet el cezire anlaşma bölgesel
02:01:25karışıklığı yaşadıkları için aynen
02:01:28öyle fransızlar neden eşi görülmemiş diyor çünkü NATO'nun beyin ölümü
02:01:32gerçekleşti diyen eee
02:01:34ondan sonra ya bu NATO ile olmayacak biz acaba kendi
02:01:38aramızda bir ordu mu kursak deyip bunu beceremeyen sonra da Amerika'nın
02:01:42önüne geçip böyle Trump'ın önüne geçip önünü ilikleyip öğrenci
02:01:46gibi dizilip parmak. kaldırıp tuvalete gitme izni alan
02:01:48will say unheard of.
02:01:52So, a picture like that emerges. The Greeks
02:01:55say it's Erdoğan's victory. What do the Russians say,
02:01:59hocam? Were there any Russians? Did you see any? No,
02:02:02probably not. Al Jazeera
02:02:06also has The Indian Express, pardon me.
02:02:09What did the Indians say? The Indians said that the
02:02:12agreement was signed at a time when regional balances
02:02:15were changing. The message from India is this:
02:02:18"Gentlemen, the balances are changing." Netanyahu
02:02:22immediately gave a speech saying that their friendship
02:02:25with India and Greece is permanent. Around
02:02:28the same time, a new energy line, as you know,
02:02:32was being tried to be established through India, Israel, Greece.
02:02:36That also causes discomfort, of course. The President boarded
02:02:39the plane, the Mecca Agreement began to be written,
02:02:43something would happen in Mecca, three leaders were going.
02:02:46Actually, it was kept very secret at that time. It was
02:02:50like nobody knew, but the preparation phase was huge.
02:02:54As soon as the news came out, voices from Israel began to
02:02:58say things like "our bonds of friendship with Greece
02:03:01and India," and such news started to come. What did Russia say,
02:03:05hocam? I found it in English. The Mecca Defense
02:03:08Agreement brought together three great
02:03:11powers such as Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Pakistan, it said.
02:03:14Through these three great
02:03:17powers coming together, they are in agreement,
02:03:21as far as we understand. In terms of scale, of course, it's not
02:03:25like Lebanon, Syria, or Iraq. Therefore, when Egypt is counted
02:03:28with other actors in its expectations, it is a state that stands
02:03:32out with different aspects. Even if you don't see it regionally,
02:03:35at a global scale, it's a considerable
02:03:38power, Egypt. So, Egypt will probably wait a
02:03:41bit longer because it's economically
02:03:45dependent on Biden.
02:03:50That is, I think it will follow the powerful side, whichever
02:03:53way it evolves. So, even if it joins, how
02:03:56long will it take? I don't know. Egypt has
02:04:00limitations. Especially after the coup,
02:04:03the United States. The addictive relationship it had with finance
02:04:07went to a very different place because there was no
02:04:11income stream that spread to different areas other than tourism,
02:04:14so foreign policy reflexes are also a bit.
02:04:17They are narrowing, hopefully we will see Palestine in these defense
02:04:21and no more guns
02:04:24will be pointed there. We can continue this in the other block
02:04:28if you want to talk, we have a little more time, let's go
02:04:31for a break, maybe new things will come to your mind after
02:04:35the break and you can add them. Are we going for a break? Okay. A break.
02:04:38ara.
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02:09:23Now in this blog, I will start with the terror-free
02:09:26Turkey process, but let's also look at the part
02:09:30of this Mecca Agreement related to the terror-free
02:09:32Turkey process, what kind of effect it will have,
02:10:00If you remember, it was not just terror-free Turkey,
02:10:04it was also a terror-free region, which means a stable region.
02:10:07Against whom? Just against the PKK, against other
02:10:11terrorist organizations. Even Israel, since it is called
02:10:14a terrorist state, perhaps it was
02:10:17expressed in the sense of appeasing it. He says
02:10:21this himself, by the way, yes, he says it is a terrorist
02:10:24state because what is the purpose of
02:10:27terror? To create instability, isn't it? To create chaos
02:10:31and benefit from it. Maybe it can be said that Israel
02:10:34applies similar tactics. So, now,
02:10:37both to ensure this stability in the region and to ensure
02:10:41stability within the countries. For example,
02:10:44in order to make such an agreement, to develop your
02:10:48defense industry, there should be no terrorist activities
02:10:52to appease them, and the