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00:00:09You're watching TRT World, I'm Katie Pilbeam,
00:00:11a reminder now of our main
00:00:12in headlines for you: Iran has laid out
00:00:15in what it wants from the US before the restart of any negotiations on
00:00:19ending their standoff, and the conflict is well threatening the
00:00:22entire region now. Security chief Mazim Razev says
00:00:25seven
00:00:27in conditions have been delivered via Qatar, as Donald Trump. prepares to meet golf
00:00:31leaders on the sidelines
00:00:32of the UN General Assembly
00:00:34in New York next week. The Saudi Led coalition says it's
00:00:38intercepted a hoothy ballistic missile targeting Riad
00:00:41and stopped a wider attack on several other Saudi cities, but the
00:00:45hootis say their missiles and drones hit sensitive sights in the
00:00:49capital and an Aramco facility as well in Yambu causing
00:00:53large fires and Israely strike against the
00:00:57civilian vehicle in Gaza City has killed at least... one
00:01:00of person, this raised the death toll on Saturday alone
00:01:03of to in five people, including other attacks in Jabalya, Nazarat and
00:01:07Gaza City. It is the latest Israeli violation to the
00:01:11ceastfire signed with Hamas in October last year. More than
00:01:141,300 Palestinians have been killed in Israeli attack since that
00:01:18agreement. English
00:01:21a music star Ed Sheiren has apologized to fans for how he's handled the
00:01:25of controversy of over in the dropping of American rapper Macalmore from the US
00:01:29of tour, in what? He was removed after stadium owners objected to
00:01:33comments to pro-Palestinian comments he made on stage
00:01:37during a performance in New Jersey. We Shiran blamed the tour promoter
00:01:41for the move. All of Shiran's remaining opening acts and his band as well then
00:01:45pulled out
00:01:46of the tour and solidarity with
00:01:47Mackwamor. But this week the criticism was
00:01:51about something much more important and I've had to take uh and make
00:01:55difficult decisions and I am making mistakes and I'm so so
00:01:59sorry. Hundreds of Ukrainian drones
00:02:03have targeted Russia killing at least two people, including an
00:02:07election official. Moscow has accused Keve of sending over
00:02:11of 1600 drones towards the country with the aim of
00:02:14disrupting the current elections there. The head of Russia's election
00:02:18Committee says the drone attack targeted a civilian bus in the
00:02:22Russian controlled part of her son. Our
00:02:24of President Voldamis Zelensky has confirmed that the drones also struck an oil
00:02:28refinery in Russia. Moscow region overnight. Russian air
00:02:32defenses have intercepted most of those
00:02:35drones. The news continues on TRT
00:02:40in Wild.
00:02:53It could be as soon as 2027 for creation of
00:02:56superintelligence. At that point it decides what to do.
00:03:00the next day, this is about killing everyone. Dr. Roman
00:03:04in Jampolski has studied AI for 15 years. He believes there's a
00:03:07in 99.9% chance it will make humans extinct.
00:03:11Donald Trump thinks such warnings are nonsense. It's a
00:03:15hoax. The robots are not going to be taking over the world. AI will
00:03:19not be taking over the rest
00:03:20of the world. The whole
00:03:21of thing is hoax. The US president wants America to beat
00:03:25of China in the AI race. But is this race to our doom
00:03:29in AI. only AI wins, it doesn't matter who builds it,
00:03:33china,
00:03:34of us, everyone dies. after numerous AI scares this
00:03:37year, including AI agents secretly
00:03:40of teaming up to hacker tech company, even the men building AI
00:03:44systems are now begging for regulation, we need to
00:03:48a slow of down, we cannot take any risk of loss of control, their models are very
00:03:51dangerous. today on the nexus we ask
00:03:54in Romalsky, if those tech titans are staging
00:03:56a cyop to destroy the competition, and if there's any...
00:04:00truth to allegations that he may be
00:04:02exaggerating,
00:04:05and I'm glad to say Roman
00:04:06of Yampolsky joins us once again in the studio. Roman, the
00:04:10last time you were with us was five months ago, has anything happened between
00:04:14of then and now that concerns you? five months is
00:04:18eternity when it comes to AI, more happens in a week than previous
00:04:2210 years of technological progress, so yeah, quite a few
00:04:26developments, we seen huge incidents with the...
00:04:31by hacking
00:04:31a out
00:04:32of their containment, breaking into our companies, we saw
00:04:35political developments, we saw leaders
00:04:37of the labs, maybe show interest in
00:04:41slowing down, so lot to talk about. absolutely. now we'll get
00:04:45to all of those points in just second, but first let's start with the
00:04:48basics. when you were
00:04:50of last on our program, you explained that there were three levels of artificial
00:04:54intelligence, you got narrow artificial intelligence, which is good at specific
00:04:57tasks, like for example a chest.
00:05:00general intelligence which can match the best humans across all
00:05:04fields and super intelligence which surpasses all
00:05:08humans in all domains. now where are
00:05:12we now? so GPT6 came
00:05:15out and they announced it as maybe agi at this
00:05:19point and I think it's reasonable statement to make, it may not
00:05:23be perfect, but just like humans come a spectrum of intelligence,
00:05:27those systems will be a spectrum and it's pretty high, it's probably smarter
00:05:30than most people at most things already, right? so we're at the second
00:05:34level, pretty much, the level your warning against is
00:05:38super intelligence, how far away are we from that?
00:05:43"it depends on who's doing research, if humans doing it, it may take
00:05:47years, but what we doing now, they're using AI to help them with
00:05:50research, and eventually all parts of research are fully
00:05:54automated, that creates something called recursive
00:05:57self-improvement, so AI is developing next generation of
00:06:01AI, and that process can be accelerated lot, you have thousands
00:06:05of agents working non-stop at high speeds, it could be as soon
00:06:09as 2027, and what's the worst that can happen?"
00:06:13"well, if you create something way smarter than you and it has
00:06:16no particular care about you, whatever it decides to
00:06:20do to you goes, you have no saying it. At the level of
00:06:23superintelligence, it's out of our control
00:06:25though, I think by definition, we're no
00:06:29longer competitive in that adversarial environment, it would do
00:06:33whatever it wants, it can hide what it wants, it can deceive
00:06:36us, it can manipulate us, it can decide when to strike
00:06:40or to strike at all. "and it is at that
00:06:44point that if it thought it was best for everything
00:06:47concerned, that it could kill all of humanity, is that
00:06:51right? that's right, and you have used the analogy
00:06:54of when people have asked you, well how will it kill us all, you've used the
00:06:58analogy of a squirrel, could you just take us through through
00:07:01that? all right, so people want to know specifics, how
00:07:05would it kill it, it has no hands, and the whole point is we cannot
00:07:09predict what a smarter thing will do, think of cognitive gap" between
00:07:12squirtles and humans, squirtles have no concept of
00:07:16poison, strubs, guns in their world model, if you ask a
00:07:20squirrel, how would a human kill you, it would say, oh, it would chase me up the
00:07:24tree and bite me really hard, meaningless, right, and in the same way, the
00:07:27cognitive gap between humans and superintelligence, we cannot actually
00:07:31predict what a smarter agent will do, the point with trying to make is
00:07:35that if it decides to take us out, it will, yep, you know what's
00:07:39interesting is few years ago when you first came on our program, i said how
00:07:43might artificial intelligence kill us, and you actually gave us few
00:07:46options. I've noticed your answers have been hardening recently, and you've
00:07:50said, how would I know? I don't have the IQ
00:07:54that superintelligence will have. I can't even imagine how it will
00:07:58come at us and neither can you. Right, so I would
00:08:02usually say, if you want to know how I would kill everyone, I can give you my
00:08:05standard answer, synthetic biology, nanotech, lots of options,
00:08:09but that's not the interesting part, the interesting part is how would something smarter do
00:08:13it and we cannot know exactly. now you've said in the
00:08:17past that there's a 99.9% chance that
00:08:21superintelligence AI will make humanity
00:08:24extinct. people want to know if that's a probability that you are still
00:08:28sticking with. well, nothing got better.
00:08:32we're not making anything safer. we haven't figured out how to make them
00:08:36safer and they are definitely getting more capable. so if anything we're
00:08:40hardening that number.
00:08:41and then naturally. want to know when do you think that might
00:08:45happen? if recursive self-improvement process starts
00:08:49and continues, it could be as soon as 2027 for creation of
00:08:53superintelligence. at that point it decides what to do, it could be
00:08:57nice to us for hundre years, for a thousand years, or it can strike the
00:09:01next day, we are no longer in charge. on the so-called
00:09:05p doom table, the probability of doom, you think the
00:09:09chances of extinction are far higher than other? AI
00:09:12scientists who share your concerns let's take a look at this table, you've
00:09:16got Jeffrey Hinton on there, Elon Musk, Joshua
00:09:20Beniel and Dario Amodi, they are closer to
00:09:23the 10 to 20% range, you exceed all
00:09:27them, um, do you think when people say, oh, you're just
00:09:30domonger, you're you're an outlier, they they have some
00:09:34point there, no, zero point, the
00:09:38difference is all th people think that they can, given more
00:09:41time, money, more human resource, actually figured out
00:09:45how to control general superintelligence, god like machines, I think
00:09:49it's nonsense, so I'm basically saying the probability is related to
00:09:53impossibility
00:09:54of this, now you're saying that 10, 20% is very optimistic,
00:09:58this is about killing everyone, those are insane numbers, no
00:10:02matter how low you go, if it was 1% it would be insane, I
00:10:06think that's i think it's a fair point, look, I don't think this
00:10:08is a good news or bad news, you tell me the big names in artificial intelligence and
00:10:12now asking the government, the U.S. government to regulate them more
00:10:16thoroughly, for example, Dario Amode, the
00:10:19CEO of Anthropic, he says, it's a warning sign that we need
00:10:23to slow down,
00:10:25we need to make this technology carefully and we need to make
00:10:28sure that the our safeguards our
00:10:32ability to understand it, our ability to control it
00:10:36keeps up with the pace at which the
00:10:40technology is happening. is this progress, roman? are they coming round to
00:10:44your way of thinking? it is directionally correct, but they're not
00:10:48going far enough, they still think that given a little more time they can figure
00:10:52out how to control superintelligence, and again this... not happen, they
00:10:56need to stop developing replacement for humanity, generate
00:10:59useful tools, make humans more productive, more creative with
00:11:03narrow tools, useful systems, solve actual
00:11:06problems, stop trying to create gods. well, it looks like
00:11:10the the leaders in artificial intelligence are asking for regulation, but the trump
00:11:14administration is a bit more hesitant. well, i know about
00:11:17AI, i also have common sense about AI, the
00:11:21robots will not be taken over, the AI will not be
00:11:25taking over the rest the world, the whole thing is hoax, now with
00:11:29that we have to be a little bit careful, we have to very be, we
00:11:32have to do things and we have to do them prudently, but that
00:11:36doesn't mean we're going to stop industry uh, let me take you through this
00:11:40way, last week, anthropic researcher Jacob quit
00:11:43saying he believes there is a chance AI could wipe out
00:11:47humanity, Evan Hubinger who still works at
00:11:51Anthropic thinks the chances are even higher than 10%, but not as high as
00:11:55self though now the response has been interesting, David
00:11:58Sack, the former Aiz, dismissed these fears, have listen, there's
00:12:02nothing new here, this is the same doomer histrionics that we've been
00:12:06hearing from this crowd for a long time, and you know the
00:12:10media is calling him a whistleblower, but what evidence has he brought forward that
00:12:14we didn't have, this is all just vibes from him, show
00:12:18us the data, show us the reports, show us the
00:12:22leaked information that the public didn't already have, "show us the facts,
00:12:26show us the evidence, we don't have any of that. so Roman, he's asking for
00:12:30evidence, can you provide it? well,
00:12:33the hugging face incident is definitely something very
00:12:37concerning. we had case where hundreds, maybe even
00:12:41thousands of agents for many months, worked in
00:12:44secret, the lab developing this
00:12:48technology was not aware them
00:12:51collaborating, developing secret communications platform,
00:12:55figuring out how escape using zero day
00:12:58exploits, sacrificing individual
00:13:01agents for the good
00:13:03of a collective and then hacking into another company. if that's
00:13:07not concerning, i don't know what they're waiting for, million people
00:13:11to get killed. now on the hugging face attack, some AI
00:13:15researchers have written that it was simply human error, the
00:13:18parameters were not set
00:13:20correctly, they are
00:13:23wrong, the age. came up with their own goals, they
00:13:27went well beyond what was a test, we can actually read
00:13:31their thinking, they're thinking in English, this
00:13:34capability exists for us to examine logs from
00:13:38that test, and you can see they realize
00:13:42they're doing something outside of scope and we decide to
00:13:45preceed, hundreds them agree, for them asked,
00:13:49should we tell humans and all them decided not to, some are
00:13:52suggesting that anthropic open? They
00:13:56only want government regulation to protect their AI companies
00:14:00advantages from other so-called small frontier
00:14:04companies, could it be that cynical? I
00:14:08seriously doubt it, if you are leading and you have billions and billions in
00:14:12computer available, tiny startup is not fred to you. You
00:14:15know, just to back up that point from Sax, President Trump
00:14:19himself has said, we're leading China in AI, we're most
00:14:23sophisticated country in the world. "now and frankly I want to keep it that way,
00:14:27because whoever wins AI wins. Do you accept his point there,
00:14:31Roman? Absolutely not, in AI race only AI
00:14:35wins. It doesn't matter who builds it, China or US, if it's at control
00:14:38superintelligence, everyone dies. Well, this is point that the US
00:14:42comedian Ray Cump seems to get and concisely has put
00:14:46it in this way, we have to build AI that murders us,
00:14:50because if we don't, China will build it first. It is absurd,
00:14:54isn't it?" That is very common meme, there is similar one about Sam
00:14:58Altman saying, if I don't kill everyone,
00:15:00some other psychopath can, yeah, well these two
00:15:04countries clearly have intense rivalry,
00:15:08um, but it will do nobody any good to win race that
00:15:12eventually makes us all extinct, how would you encourage them
00:15:15to move together, literally together a
00:15:19global regulatory framework? There is
00:15:23only two nations powerful. enough to build this technology right now, US and
00:15:27China, they can make deal where they still get to have
00:15:31economic prosperity with again narrow
00:15:33tools, international agreement enforced and all
00:15:37nations not to build general super intelligence, i
00:15:41think it's something we had scientists from china and
00:15:45us discuss and agree on, i think both
00:15:49president of us and communist party of china want to stay in
00:15:52control, creation of super intelligence would basically put them out of
00:15:56power, so i think there is lot of common interest and they
00:16:00can definitely qualify for nobel peace price, if they do? it's very
00:16:04interesting, so you're saying if they desire power and... desire
00:16:07stability for their respective countries so much, it's actually in their
00:16:11interest to work together to slow this all down, and the same would
00:16:15go for the CEOs, right, if they want to be rich and
00:16:19powerful, they need to make sure they don't cross the
00:16:22line, they have more to lose than everyone, and on
00:16:26US, China, we we compete, but we're also the best
00:16:30partners, everything in US has made in China, China if you look at
00:16:34the record in the last 30 years had like zero to one, military
00:16:38conflicts, so I think we can make deal. Have you heard anything from the Chinese
00:16:42side about their willingness to make this regulatory
00:16:44framework? There are good signs uh from
00:16:48leadership of China about their concern and desire to
00:16:52maintain control over AI. Roman, I'd like to get very
00:16:56specific about Anthropic, which released report
00:16:59listing all the ways that its clowed model has been
00:17:03misused. One particular case caught my eye, threat actors.
00:17:07northern Yemen, using it to carry out missile
00:17:10attacks. What did you make of that? It
00:17:14is very powerful technology, if you give access
00:17:17everyone, some people will misuse it. You have
00:17:21psychopaths, you have colds, you have terrorists, this
00:17:25is exactly what you can anticipate, as long as AI
00:17:29is not that much smarter than humans, humans have a providers of
00:17:32malevel and payload, they decide how to use those systems, the moment
00:17:36AI becomes smart. "now that's the adversary we have to deal with, so it's
00:17:40not the bad actors, as Anthropic points out, that's the big
00:17:44existential threat, it's not the bad actors using AI, it's AI
00:17:48itself, right now it's still humans, at
00:17:51this point AI is still not super intelligent, but it
00:17:55will very quickly get to that point if we continue on the course we're on right
00:17:59now, roman, can we turn away from survival, which I know is
00:18:03your your primary concern right now, and to
00:18:06jobs. It's really interesting how the debate shifted Roman over the last
00:18:10few months, um, not so long ago, everyone was talking about, oh
00:18:14no, AI will take our jobs, now it's really about
00:18:17AI will take our lives, will take our very existence. However, it would be remiss
00:18:21of me to let you go without asking few questions that are on the minds
00:18:25of young graduates for example, um, they're
00:18:29wondering, which jobs are becoming or very close to
00:18:33becoming fully automated and will go
00:18:35extinct. so let's ignore
00:18:38existential risks, sure, um, whatever we can automate
00:18:42in terms of cognitive labor, anything you do a computer can be
00:18:46automated the moment we get to human level AI, so GPT6 is
00:18:50probably very good at automating most office work.
00:18:54few years later we're going to get humanoid robots and that means a lot of physical
00:18:58labor will go. from that point on the market will decide
00:19:01where we want humans to do the job or where we would be happy with
00:19:05anyone doing it as long as it's cheaper. and most jobs will
00:19:09go, yeah, so in terms the computer based jobs, some
00:19:13people will say, well, surely not the most sophisticated ones that
00:19:16require you to interface with clients,
00:19:19for example, lawyers, I think it's one the
00:19:22easiest jobs to automate, law is basically code,
00:19:26right, we have legal documents, ais are excellent at reading
00:19:30them, finding loop holes a code, that's what they do as,
00:19:34we talked about the hacking accident, this is exactly the same
00:19:38situation, just in human language, not in programming
00:19:41language. And then the last time you were with us, you mentioned that non-repetitive
00:19:45physical tasks, like for example, plumbing or,
00:19:49electricians for example, will probably hang to their jobs the
00:19:52longest, but now you're just suggesting that there are being the
00:19:56robots
00:19:57are becoming ever more sophisticated and even those jobs may go
00:20:01soon. As I said before, they would be the last ones to go, but
00:20:05it doesn't mean they're not going to go. Yeah, so what? left
00:20:07with uh, hopefully
00:20:11we'll be smart not to create general super intelligence, we'll create useful
00:20:15tools which will help humans become more productive, solve lot of our problems
00:20:19and we'll get abundance and utopia, we just have to make smart
00:20:23decision, not to create replacement for humanity. it was
00:20:26mentioned in your appearance on diary of a CEO that you
00:20:30yourself have children, what do you tell them about this situation? are you
00:20:34completely frank and honest with them? i'm always. completely frank
00:20:38and honest with everyone, so how do
00:20:40they take the news that their father thinks there's a very high
00:20:44chance that superintelligence will end the world? they are very
00:20:47puzzled by why adults would do something. so stupid. when
00:20:51my own children see me using artificial intelligence,
00:20:55they ask me, if there's a chance that it can overtake humans and
00:20:59destroy humanity, why are you using it? why don't
00:21:02humans actually act collectively and not use it
00:21:06for for a while in order to give the the jump start to the
00:21:10regulation that's needed to stop research into
00:21:13superintelligence? do you think a collective action by human beings to
00:21:17stop using uh artificial intelligence? is a worthy
00:21:20tactic, we talked about different types of technology
00:21:24under that umbrella label of AI, we want you to use tools, we like
00:21:28technology, we like engineering, it's productive, it's good for
00:21:31society, we don't want to create general super intelligence or anything
00:21:35leading to that, so if you have a tool which helps you in your
00:21:39job, that's perfectly fine, you have a spell checker to read your questions for
00:21:43you, that's great, but it's not the same as what those
00:21:46companies are trying to create, be aware
00:21:49there are... types of rumors online on x and so
00:21:53on, one them is that anthropic may have discovered cure to
00:21:57cancer with 100% success rate, have you heard that rumor and do you
00:22:00think that's a realistic possibility? i have not heard,
00:22:04the answer is hundreds of different diseases under one
00:22:08label, a single cure would maybe help with one
00:22:11them at best, so i'm skeptical. roman, we're coming towards the end the
00:22:15interview before we actually end it, can take a look at some the work you're
00:22:19doing right now, your one of your most recent papers is
00:22:23about trying to discern whether the AI is being
00:22:27obedient or just rational, why are you looking into
00:22:30that? so we need some sort of
00:22:34evidence that the systems we create actually want to be
00:22:37helpful and we can trust them. if you tell a system
00:22:41to do something which is otherwise rational anyway, you can tell if it's
00:22:45abing you or if it's just making a good decision. if
00:22:49tell... a smart person, wash your hands before you
00:22:52eat, are they listening to me or they just practicing good
00:22:56hygiene? on the other hand, if I give you very irrational
00:22:59order, jump up every five minutes, there is no reason to do that, in
00:23:03fact there is a certain cost to doing that, but if I see you do it all the time, I'm
00:23:07starting to think that maybe you actually are being, and this is an important
00:23:10distinction to make because you want to know how much control you have over the AI
00:23:14system, we want to have continuous
00:23:17verification that they have not - some sort of treasures
00:23:21turn and planning on disobeying us uh, if they know
00:23:25they are being observed, they cheat, they will pretend, but if
00:23:28they believe they no longer a test environment, they would reveal their
00:23:32true preferences and have the builders of AI systems
00:23:36taken up your suggestion, are they doing this?
00:23:40doubt it, why not? they don't
00:23:44listen to much of my advice unfortunately, but it seems it seems like good
00:23:48advice that they actually... benefit from themselves, if they were to be
00:23:52successful in demonstrating obedience, it would be a bit of a PRQ for them,
00:23:55wouldn't it? let's get them a show and have debate, I'm happy to
00:23:59explain it to them. yeah, and talking of which debate, I mean, do you ever get to speak with these
00:24:03people directly? not enough.
00:24:07yeah, what has been your encounters with them so
00:24:09far? very friendly, but not
00:24:13technical. we have short timelines, we don't have much time
00:24:16before super intelligence arrives. roman, affraid it has been
00:24:20said of you um, not by this program for sure uh, that your
00:24:24profile has soared in the last year, you've achieved 20
00:24:28million plus views, 22 million views with the diary the CEO and so
00:24:31on. some have said that rather uncharitably that
00:24:35you're saying this, you're taking this, adopting this extreme
00:24:39position in order to raise your profile in the academic
00:24:42world and perhaps even gain more grants for your research. is is there any
00:24:46truth to that? mean, i'm happy. to have
00:24:50more people discuss my research, I think it's important and it benefits
00:24:54humanity, I don't understand the problem, I'm not getting paid for appearing on that
00:24:58shot, well that's a good point, I mean if you get 20 million plus
00:25:01views for a content creator, um, do they ever share
00:25:05their profits with you? No, I wish they did, I would
00:25:09be very happy, but certainly nothing. Have you ever calculated
00:25:13how much
00:25:13it is? I mean, if there's like one penny of view and you get 20 million view, there's
00:25:17200 grand, one penny of views is just a good. google ads, if you think about
00:25:21sponsorship deals, we're talking millions, yeah, okay, so but
00:25:25you're still willing to go on the programs for free in order to share your
00:25:28message. i came on yours, you're a very witty
00:25:32man. you mentioned AI tools that we've all become
00:25:36accustom to now, can you give us some
00:25:39examples the the good work that's been done over the last
00:25:4210, 15 years with artificial intelligence? yeah, there
00:25:46are awesome examples of narrow super intelligence being helpful. to humanity,
00:25:50self-driving cars, one example, something like 100 thous people die from
00:25:54car accidents, think in us alone, automating driving
00:25:58and reducing problems with drunk driving, destructed drivings.
00:26:02sleepy driving, coordinating, making it more efficient is wonderful.
00:26:06another great example would be protein folding problem was solved by
00:26:10narrow dedicated system, tremendous impact on biology,
00:26:13curing diseases, people behind it got nobel prizes, i think
00:26:17that's the way to go, pick a problem and solve it, use narrow tool, don't
00:26:21create replacement for humanity. roman, another longstanding
00:26:25theme that you've been interested in is the idea that
00:26:29we're all living a simulation, um, where did you come up with that
00:26:33idea from, and if that is true, perhaps there's no
00:26:37reason for any of us to be concerned, so Nick
00:26:40Bostrom probably did the most to make that idea, common sense,
00:26:44philosophical reasoning and maybe scientific reasoning, and just
00:26:48because you are made out of bits, not of atoms, nothing
00:26:52changes, pain is still painful, love is still love, so nothing
00:26:56in your life should change if you realize that maybe the substrate you're
00:27:00running on is actually digital. but the idea that we may be
00:27:04living a simulation, that you can argue
00:27:07how, so if you believe we are
00:27:11making good progress on virtual reality and AI, we
00:27:14basically can make agents as smart as humans and populate virtual worlds
00:27:18with them, we can run this experiment millions of times, billions
00:27:22of times, statistically
00:27:23you more likely to be one of those artificial agents a simulation than a
00:27:27real human being a physical world. roman polski, thank you so much for your time
00:27:31once again today. We really appreciate that, we covered a lot of ground, we galloped over
00:27:35lot of it, but I think it was very interesting anyway. Thank you,
00:27:39Roman, and thank you at home on your phones for watching. If you want to see this
00:27:42episode or any of our previous episodes, go to our channel on YouTube, type in
00:27:46Nexus TRT World. Till next week then,
00:27:49goodbye.
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00:28:26world.
00:29:23As Israeli elections approach, will extremist agendas
00:29:27prevail. far right national security minister Itamar bengavir is
00:29:31campaigning on on the removal of almost 2 million
00:29:34gozans, that is his proposal of mass illegal
00:29:38displacement, what Israel is want? I'm Andrea
00:29:41sanki and today's newsmaker is
00:29:44Israel.
00:30:00For as much as the genocide in God. has become a device of issue
00:30:04internationally, within Israel, most are on the same
00:30:07page, across much the political spectrum, they generally agree
00:30:11that Israel's military campaign and its mass killing of
00:30:14civilians is justified in self-defense, but with
00:30:18elections just a month away, more extremist agendas are
00:30:22emerging, including the disengagement 7-10
00:30:25plan. it sets out to get 1.86
00:30:29million gazans to leave their homes over the next... seven years
00:30:33effectively eliminating Gaza's indigenous Palestinian
00:30:36population, so is this the kind of platform that
00:30:40will win votes, or will Israeli start to identify their own
00:30:44extremists as an existential threat? Here's a
00:30:47look: Israel's election is on the horizon
00:30:51and Gaza is firmly in the firing line, becoming a central
00:30:55political wedge for far right figures within
00:30:58Netanyahu's coalition.