Google Speech-to-Text API Automatic Transcription (Chirp). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:04All right, he was quick to attacking you with the arm structure, I quite
00:00:08understand, I said where were they, yeah, yeah, I, I, I quite understand where he
00:00:12was coming from, when he said, where waskon, when it happened in all your,
00:00:16but you were able to actually hold your argument with the fact
00:00:20that Amateku is
00:00:21a reflection of what we actually wants to happen when it
00:00:24in comes to local
00:00:25of policing, how do you expeciate with that? Okay, so in
00:00:29in Karno. there was a program i attended in Karno and some people
00:00:32came they call them the hish bar, they are not state police, but it's a
00:00:36template that has been created for something that
00:00:39in we of prevent crime, so
00:00:40that when the legal framework is properly done, they can actually
00:00:44maybe transform into it and they have better equipment to actually fight
00:00:48of crime. as we speak, the legality of state police
00:00:52cannot be debated because it is supported by every democracy in the
00:00:56world, especially the presidential system of government that we practice.
00:01:00but what people debate most
00:01:02of the time is oh governor we abuses this will happen
00:01:05but in the allocation um
00:01:07of the federal government there are constitutional um um
00:01:11allocation that needs to go each state for example if you are a
00:01:15state producing oil producing state there's a certain allocation so I
00:01:18believe it's part
00:01:19of the conversation now that there must be a certain percentage of what comes
00:01:23into state that
00:01:24of must be deployed into security when this becomes a law you
00:01:28will know that the issue of no funding or inadequate
00:01:32funding will naturally disappear and let me quickly add to you that
00:01:36the governors of our state
00:01:37of today have taken more money in the last three years than they've ever taken in the
00:01:41last 14 or 15 years, it means that most
00:01:44of the state government now have access to money and
00:01:47of most
00:01:47of them who
00:01:48of are of wise we have to reorder their priority beyond project the
00:01:52issue of security has become number one so we believe that once we continue to
00:01:56of push at the level that we are pushing
00:01:58of once conversations are going on no state governor sir, we want to stay in
00:02:02the government lodge and
00:02:03of we be comfortable that his people are being killed, most
00:02:05of the time they are powerless
00:02:07of because they do not have the backing
00:02:08of the law, you cannot deploy a moteku to go and with pump action
00:02:12to go and face somebody who is carrying an
00:02:15of AK47, these are some
00:02:20of of the things that these new laws are meant to to address and
00:02:20of once they are
00:02:21of addressed we will have a Nigeria where everybody
00:02:24can thank
00:02:27you before before before to him,
00:02:31it seeming like everything he's trying to say, you are
00:02:34stylishly pampering the governors with what he's trying to put out governors,
00:02:38that's what that's why he try, that's the the way he say the
00:02:41problem of the country, you are saying that yes, state police
00:02:45cannot do the job, but we are
00:02:47of saying it's time to put our governors on their toes now by making
00:02:51sure that now there's
00:02:52of a he said something said beyond projects how about to make
00:02:56security top priority
00:02:58meaning let's
00:02:58use security to start measuring the performance of our governors, thank
00:03:02you, he made instance of hisb, if you go
00:03:05of to now those guys, if they get you smok or or get you taking alcohol, you are
00:03:09finished, that's what you're talking about state policing that hisb
00:03:12go to, i was born at in the not, so now if you have
00:03:16society and security organ, local security
00:03:19organ like have you hisb
00:03:22know
00:03:22who like input religion into
00:03:26security, there's going to be a problem, because if you say i come to yourself i cannot drink be
00:03:30and
00:03:30you come to my stage you are taking beer that tells you that security has been defeated and he's talking
00:03:34about amoteko and the pump action security is not about guns so you know it's not
00:03:38about guns security is all
00:03:39of about being proactive how do you being how are you being proactive have some intelligence
00:03:43components in place have some
00:03:45of technological process in place - used as intelligence
00:03:49components will not
00:03:51of happen for any crime to occur there must be a surveillance and
00:03:54of for any crime to be executed these surveillance guys will go back and
00:03:58tell
00:03:58the people that hey this is school and clear come and
00:04:01operate in the area of intelligence, if they don't have
00:04:05a action, of don't of they have intelligence? if you have
00:04:07of intelligence, you able to go after the commission of crime, criminals been delayed,
00:04:16but you quite agree that the argument about all your state
00:04:20government, not prioritizing local government autonomy was also another
00:04:24argument that brought about the fact that this particular situation happened, because if you
00:04:28notice there was a time when the... "the local government autonomy law
00:04:31was passed, governor sh was very, very, very brutal about it,
00:04:35he said, look, he does not believe in local government autonomy, he said he
00:04:39believes more in the federal and the state, he was very emphatic about
00:04:43it, now there is an argument that if he had prioritized,
00:04:47prioritized local government autonomy, maybe it will have been very difficult for
00:04:51that raid to happen, how do you, how do you content with that? you see, that's why most
00:04:54times we try to blame the federal government, we have the local
00:04:58government, we have the state government." and we have the federal government, let's learn to share
00:05:02blames and not centralize our problem. has once said that he believe in the
00:05:06states and in the federal governmentts uh in the area of autonomy, he doesn't want
00:05:10the money to go to the local government, I don't the reason why. but for me, if you have these funds within the local
00:05:14government, now if you travel abroad for example, you see some guys riding on bicycles,
00:05:18you think they are r doing exercise, they are not doing exercise, they are going, they are getting informations, they
00:05:22are on surveillance duty, trying to observe who and who, and that's why sometimes when there's a
00:05:25crime or crime in progress, you see that the police are already there between the f minutes, why?
00:05:29because there is effective intelligence measures in place, if you are talking about state
00:05:33policing system, we have not even equipped our federal policing system, we left them a
00:05:37very bad situation, i want to create new situation that will also
00:05:41be a very bad like to our people, so for me, I tell you that,
00:05:45it's just like having having a
00:05:49wife and you give your wife h, 10000 or 5000 every month to prepare
00:05:53very good soup for you, and you are expecting how to put okporoko every time, okporoko fish, if
00:05:57there's no okoroko fish there eat it, because if you give her good money you
00:06:00get oporoco fish, if you don't give her good money you noroko fish, so that is the
00:06:04problem we have in the country, our police are not well paid, they are not well taking care of, and
00:06:08you want them to put in their best, that is why crime has been excelling because "the
00:06:12government has abused and failed the policy system, thank
00:06:15you, he has made valid point, i
00:06:19was going to tell you that if you are, if you are here conversing for state
00:06:23police, what happens to the central police system, how would they
00:06:27feel now that you're actually trying to give the new baby some attention, because
00:06:31of course there's there's already whispers that - this state police that is coming, they
00:06:35seem to have all the structures in place to actually make it work, what
00:06:38if they now start feeling left out of this?" "
00:06:42picture, is there not going to be disharmony? would would would that bitterness not
00:06:46further spread and probably break down this particular architecture that we
00:06:50are trying to set up? okay, so I will not make this contribution by um looking at
00:06:54the opinion of people on the street, I will make this um
00:06:58conversation around the mindset the the present inspector general
00:07:02of police, he had said that this is the first time that the federal government will
00:07:06invite them to have a proper input in the formulation the state
00:07:09police, what does that tell you? it tells you that... this the current federal
00:07:13police is boding and they also want to be help because
00:07:17efficiency cannot be achieved when you are bording when you are stress and you
00:07:21are bnt out so what i tells you is that the current
00:07:24federal police is also taking advantage the creation of
00:07:28state police to show that they are efficient that they are effective and one
00:07:32the one the components the paper if you have seen it is that all policeman
00:07:36in Nigeria must wear body camera immediately
00:07:39after creation of state police they say at the state
00:07:43level, but at the federal level, it means that the federal
00:07:46government has actually abandoned the Nigerian police to this point, but
00:07:50this insecurity has become a wakeup call and we can see the direction
00:07:54that is going, beyond changing what they have, they want state to
00:07:58now have impul and like I've said repeatedly, crimes
00:08:02are local and the only way to cure crime is
00:08:06to approach local way to
00:09:13All right, security affects every Nigerian, so today the conversation
00:09:17belongs to you, from students to business owners to parents, to retired security
00:09:20personnel, our audience shares your questions, concerns and
00:09:23experiences right here on the show. First, who's going first?
00:09:36Dr. Dixen, all right, so
00:09:38you you're saying that state police is not the solution to the problem.
00:09:42so I'm asking what is the solution if
00:09:46state police will not totally curb the
00:09:49issue of insecurity? let me use the word,
00:09:53okay? so what is the real approach to mitigate this
00:09:57current problem? security insecurity is on the high rise, coming down
00:10:01here, i mean the minds of people were high, you must get
00:10:05their safety, so people cannot even come because already afraid, so what can be done
00:10:15very short
00:10:17just answer of time, fantastic question you've asked and i want to let you know the
00:10:19that major problem
00:10:21that is nigeria, not
00:10:22if you're talking about uh criminals issues
00:10:26or crime is not the problem be devil nigeria, what
00:10:28we are looking at is
00:10:29that what is what what led to the causes of crime? i'm a criminologist and we what
00:10:33we do is that we try to know the how, why you understand? i'm not interested in who
00:10:37commit crime, i want to know why, the why? so if we start looking at the
00:10:41why Nigerians this way, the why people are committed crime, why
00:10:44why is kidnapping on the high rice, they will begin to address it, bringing
00:10:48state policy is just like addressing the situation the Nigerian state from the surface, but
00:10:52we need to go
00:10:53to the causative factors and look at. economic situation, because I cannot just
00:10:57pull out my my come on the street and go after go and
00:11:01start committing crime or whatever the case may be, so state policing is not the solution,
00:11:05it could mitigate desp of criminal situation, but what happened to
00:11:09kidnapping, what happened to bandy, what happened to terrorism, what happened to
00:11:12unemployment, because most these criminals what they do, they capitalize on the vulnerable
00:11:16state of nigerians and employ them as terrorist as fighters, so if you have
00:11:20very good employment system in place, terrorists will lack fighters, they also like
00:11:24lack uh people to come on
00:11:25board
00:11:43um my my question is directed to
00:11:46doctorun mr dotun
00:11:49so you mentioned um two billion nara the whole time
00:11:53and um my question is that how um with the law
00:11:57backup allocations for the state police? okay,
00:12:01okay, fantastic question. um, presently, there are resources
00:12:05that are backed by law, for for instance, in my state, inondo
00:12:09state, there's a 14% allocation from whatever comes from
00:12:13oil that is accruable to an agency of government called
00:12:16the osopad deck, so they use this 40% to develop the
00:12:20mandate area, which is the oil producing areas the state.
00:12:24now, as this conversation is going on, it will also be
00:12:28part the um law that will be passed that certain
00:12:31percentage the allocation that will come each state must be
00:12:35spent on security, so when you have one
00:12:39one for example and the say 0.2% of that onear
00:12:43must go to to security, you don't use it to pay salary, you just put
00:12:47the entire money into security, by so doing you discover that the
00:12:51problem of lack of funding that my opponent talked about or people i've
00:12:55continued to talk about we actually
00:13:05conversation, my question is directed to Dr. Dickson, he just
00:13:08alluded to the fact that we have about 350 police policing
00:13:12220 million as a security expert we, i
00:13:16understand that you mention kinetic approach that people live in squalor despudency
00:13:20and we need to address this holistically, but don't you think that
00:13:24250? thousand police cannot police
00:13:27220 million effectively, he mentioned
00:13:31amoteku, are you remember that this people are hardock, so if probably have been integrated
00:13:35in the system within a better framework, don't you think we going to have better
00:13:39or insane society?
00:13:46security is not about numbers, the population of Israel today is 9
00:13:49million, almost about three times of
00:13:53Lagos, Lagos is about 20. million up Israel is 9 million fighting a
00:13:57country of 90 million Iran and also engaging other
00:14:01countries that tells you that security is not about numbers, security is made up the
00:14:05people, that is the uni, the technology and
00:14:09processes, so if you are thinking about the people, you are not addressing security
00:14:12issues, five people, I'm tell you five people can have
00:14:16effective technology, you deploy them in hostile environment, carry out
00:14:20enemy intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance
00:14:23mission and send the information. back to the uh command control center through
00:14:27that uh uh technology you be able to project reasonable security
00:14:31force to go and eliminate these guys so for me is not about number is all about technology and also
00:14:35all about tactics so for us to get it right let's see how we can start
00:14:38establishing drone units nigerian police do they have drone division they don't have drone
00:14:42division the
00:14:43negerian army have drone battalion as at now i don't think they have drone battalions so what we should
00:14:47looking at is that let's start looking at how we equip them it's all about capability and
00:14:51capacity not about
00:15:06is to who now, nobody, just anybody, general, anybody can answer is
00:15:10a general question, so I'm feeling like, okay, are we not
00:15:13focusing on who is controlling the policing system rather
00:15:17than focusing on and asking questions
00:15:20about why our policing, our security
00:15:24institute. why are they not adequately funded
00:15:28and why they are not competent enough and accountability?
00:15:32okay, why should we questioning that rather than focusing on
00:15:35who is policing? the um the police
00:15:42the issue of directive is
00:15:45necessary for the for the process of direction.
00:15:49if you do not know who is giving directive, direction may be laggy, and
00:15:53that's why somebody cannot sit for example as the chief security officer of a
00:15:57state and it doesn't have control over who is the police
00:16:01or the police structure in the state, so that's not how you look at it, we still fall
00:16:05back to who controls what in my community. community
00:16:08everybody def to the traditional rulers today in my community
00:16:12and it's very easy for him to make some certain directive that leads to communal
00:16:16direction, but a situation where he cannot do that, maybe he's thinking,
00:16:20if i say this, the other person is going to say another thing because they do not belong
00:16:24to the same political party or whatever you have it, so i think we should not just
00:16:27damplay the issue of um um
00:16:30directive because who gives directive also matter in the race of
00:16:34life,
00:16:46to mr. dotton, okay, earlier you said that we have to begin something to
00:16:50arrive at somewhere, so my question is, as Nigerians today,
00:16:54are we ready for states policing?
00:17:00as nigerian, so the concept the concept of
00:17:03leadership is actually to take people to
00:17:06better place. even where when they don't want to go there, so it is the
00:17:10understanding of leadership or at the moment that state
00:17:14policing will cure some the problems that we have, people are
00:17:17convinced by result, not by process, when this is
00:17:21started and people can see that the level of insecurity in
00:17:25their communities have actually reduced, you will see them line
00:17:28up behind this ey,
00:17:53um um goal of any government is a protection of
00:17:57life and property, and from the argument of both
00:18:00sides, i have like come to kind of a
00:18:04conclusion that the issue now is not, what worked
00:18:08best, but um, the effectiveness and the
00:18:11application example, um, I'm seeing it from the lens of having
00:18:15state police we call some problems, but initiate another one,
00:18:19and for what you said about the number of police we
00:18:23have to the number of people, and half them are um pies
00:18:27for the big people, now if you bring that to the states,
00:18:30while they have the emotive um aspiration to actually
00:18:34protect their community, then there's this familiarity that comes. with
00:18:38it that this is my brother that is policing in this state, i
00:18:42can call him to mess up someone or to do something and we
00:18:45have this bastardized um identity in
00:18:49Nigeria where we tend to abuse power no matter how
00:18:53little okay is to our society so that is just my
00:19:16so does want to contribute that before creating the states
00:19:20police we also have to reform the existing nigeria police force
00:19:23because if not we're also creating the same mistake that we did the Nigerian police
00:19:27force because right now one most the issues that are facing for
00:19:30insecurity is coming from the Nigerian police force for
00:19:34example lack of proper funding briberry corruption. so what is
00:19:38ass that if we create this state police we still make the same mistake
00:19:41or we have the same problem so she firstly reform the Nigeria police
00:19:44force
00:19:59we're going to be using to create the state police right should
00:20:03be used to um how will I put it elevate
00:20:07the ones we have the reason why we can find
00:20:10these same police officers arresting innocent people because it
00:20:14happens in my in my area where i live i'm not going to mention it but in the area where
00:20:18i live my younger brother cannot come outside around 10
00:20:22o'clock my mom sells at the bus stop and we don't close until
00:20:2511 so sometimes she tells him to stay at home not to
00:20:29help her to park because when he's coming out you
00:20:33just see people on m maybe they are wearing a black shirt in
00:20:37inside they are coming to haras boys and just pick them up saying why are you
00:20:41outside by this time? so i feel like the money they are going to use to
00:20:45fund those state police should be used to i
00:20:49don't know. Maybe because they they lack, maybe their salary
00:20:53is small or maybe that's the reason why they come outside to harass people, so I
00:20:57feel like that money should not be used to create more problems for us,
00:21:01because to be honest, it is not the solution to our
00:21:08let me, let me, let me quickly put this out there, you see any police who behaves like that, is
00:21:11he responsible, the DPO who actually heads that division uh
00:21:15police station that brings those guys to come and do that rubbish is also very irresponsible.
00:21:20because if the DPO was accountable, his voice would not go out harassing people for what is
00:21:24wrong in coming out at 10 10 o'clock, that's that's actually
00:21:28irresponsibility on the part the offices there, we cannot generalize people's
00:21:31bad character and make it everybody's uh situation, that's
00:21:35a
00:23:06ladies and gentlemen, we've had this wonderful conversation and we've
00:23:09agreed that the essence of government is to actually protect life and
00:23:13property, and if the current police structure that we have in Nigeria is not
00:23:17doing that, leaving communities vulnerable, conversation should
00:23:20not just be about improving the existing police force, it should
00:23:24be about creating state police that we make access
00:23:28possible for you and I, that will make people confident to release information
00:23:32to them, that will make it possible for state government to have input
00:23:36in in security funding, and above all to
00:23:40have a chief security officer the state, the governor
00:23:44have direct control over the structure of security
00:24:17I believe that we'll all make it, but going to the last uh... speaker uh, you talk
00:24:21about police people embarrassing some people, that is why we are talking about why, why did they do
00:24:24that? now for me, i would advise the government, every person out there, take very good
00:24:28care of your wife, the government have not been taking good care of h security agents, i see the
00:24:32wifes, i see the nigerian police, nigerian military as the wife the government,
00:24:36but over the years they are on, they are not well paid, if you go to ek can there's no
00:24:40electricity, these are the guys that have put their life on the line to for you and to leave, some
00:24:44them have died in action, yet their wives are living in darkness, go to airforce base
00:24:48where we have our fighter pilots. money they wake up from darkness and go to start
00:24:52bomby enemy area. government should endeavor to take care the present
00:24:55security forces, the Nigerian police. are one the best people on one the best policing
00:24:59system we have in
00:25:00this country. the only problem is that they are underfunded. secondly, if you go to most police station,
00:25:04you see them using their own diesel, their own fuel. where do you wanted to get that money from?
00:25:08that's why when you say bail is free, in their own part they say bail is not free. i
00:25:12want
00:25:12to take buy foil. so government, see your security agent and your
00:25:16security officers as the necessary. opponent
00:25:20for you to take care of because without the police, without the military will be
00:25:59today we have heard two competing visions for Nigeria
00:26:02future,
00:26:03one argues that stronger institutions, not new police commands will deliver last in
00:26:06security, the other belies policy must move closer to the people
00:26:10if communities are to reclaim their peace. perhaps the real question is not
00:26:14simply whether Nigeria should have state police, but whether every level of
00:26:18government is prepared to accept greater responsibility for protecting
00:26:22lives, can security be centralized in nation as vast and diverse as
00:26:26ours, can descentralization strengthen accountability without
00:26:29inviting abuse and what kind of policing doesn't area of
00:26:33tomorrow truly need, the conversation doesn't end here, join us online using the
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