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00:01:00of Welcome to politics on Sunday, TBC News
00:01:04authoritative platform for rigorous political debate,
00:01:07incisive analysis
00:01:08a and
00:01:10a conversation shiping Nigeria's democracy. I standing in for
00:01:14Felmaya Kondee who is in New York to cover Nigeria's
00:01:17participation at the 81st United Nations
00:01:20of General Assembly. Tonight we turn our attention to the
00:01:24intensifying battle for Nigeria's presidency.
00:01:28President
00:01:29of Bolatinobu approaches. the 2027 election with formidable
00:01:33political advantages, the power of incubancy and
00:01:36expanding APC structure, control
00:01:39of the significant number of states
00:01:41of and experienced campaign machinery already reaching across
00:01:45political
00:01:46of regional and institutional lines. the opposition however
00:01:49insists that electoral strengths cannot be measured
00:01:53by by defections, endorsements and political structures
00:01:57alone. it believes that the real contest be
00:02:00decided by the daily experiences of
00:02:03nigerians rising, leaving cost,
00:02:06of pressure on household incomes, unemployment and persistent
00:02:09insecurity. Tinible's
00:02:11of economic reform have attracted international
00:02:14of approval of and improved some key indicators, but the
00:02:18hardship accompaning subsidy removal and the
00:02:20in currency reforms remains a potent political weapon for his
00:02:24challenges,
00:02:25a tiku Abubakar, Peter Be and other opposition figure
00:02:29may. command
00:02:30me substantial constituencies, but their inability to build a
00:02:34united front could again divide the anti-APC
00:02:38votes and strengthen the president part to reelection. let the
00:02:42conversation begin. my guestt
00:02:44is
00:02:47show me a PDP chieftin and the leader of emerging
00:02:51political movement, the alternative. nice to have
00:02:54you, it's nice to be here. how are you? it's been a
00:02:56while. where are you now?
00:03:00apart from doing the alternative, let's start there, because the the
00:03:04previous election we do
00:03:05you used to be a spokes person for bakka, where where do you stand now?
00:03:09where are you
00:03:10of now? are you still the PDP or the APC? no,
00:03:14every political party has few
00:03:16leaders that they take their anchor
00:03:20in from, for those of us who are in the
00:03:23PDP, for some time now, one
00:03:27of the most reliable, dependable. human being we
00:03:31have in our party who you can build a house on his
00:03:34word is governor wike and
00:03:38if you watch he has tried very
00:03:41hard to design a concept called
00:03:45of a rainbow coalition and on the basis of that rainbow
00:03:48coalition he has sign posted and
00:03:51signal that the
00:03:53in people's democratic party of nigeria they
00:03:57legally recognize introned one "we
00:04:01will be supporting
00:04:03president,
00:04:06okay? before that, i had become
00:04:10even much more convinced
00:04:13that Nigeria
00:04:15of has reached a stage now, where the conversation must
00:04:18be, what is the consensus
00:04:22around development, and how do we do development in
00:04:26such a way that we do not allow our country?"
00:04:30to swing back and forth only with
00:04:33half and puff of
00:04:35of politicians, especially recycled ones who
00:04:39have no capacity to move the needle
00:04:42of the development
00:04:43of the country one inch further, take it as you are rooting for
00:04:46b, everybody in the world knows that, in the last one
00:04:50year, if I were not to do any more interview
00:04:53a to of support him, I have done more than enough interviews to cover any
00:04:57will be thinker on all subject, some some
00:05:01people will say this is for your selfish interest because people will
00:05:05say reality on
00:05:07ground you know talking in terms
00:05:10of the removal of subsidy talking
00:05:12in terms. the inflation talking about the average man on the
00:05:15streets that what we are looking at the
00:05:18hardship and three things you should worry about when
00:05:22you are looking at the construct of human
00:05:24being, all human beings are
00:05:27selfish to different and very
00:05:30degrees. my level of
00:05:32selfishness is anchored and primed
00:05:36on what will bring this nation to
00:05:40level where we can now say: say okay, we are
00:05:44matching and going somewhere. i spent an official
00:05:48amount of my adult life just wishing this country well, i'm working very
00:05:51hard, upseen amount of my adult life, wishing this
00:05:55country well and working very very hard. i have never spared
00:05:59speech, i have never spared writing, i have never
00:06:03spared conferences, i have never spared even
00:06:06platforms like the state department america and the congressis to say this
00:06:10is this is what should be for us. therefore if anybody wants to call me selfish now
00:06:14that's is business, if i were to be as
00:06:17selfish as those who may want to say that, the question would
00:06:21them be why have ben in PDP since 1998
00:06:24till date? have been given anything to warrant me stay
00:06:28India, but i had always believed that we must
00:06:31build this country's democracy on stable
00:06:35institution. the challenge we have on the table today
00:06:39that even makes what we are saying now become a little bit
00:06:43possible and one can do it pridedly is that
00:06:47- ask you, shall we run a
00:06:50multi-ethnic, multicultural, multitribal, multilage
00:06:54country on an idea that the
00:06:57demography the north is the only
00:07:00currency to determine how we will swing
00:07:03power, are we not going eventually destroy the country, if we got
00:07:07to the point where we cannot even agree the
00:07:11mudicrom of if it is the north
00:07:13you guys give us somebody will do it here if he swings to the south that
00:07:17tops everything and then when you look at what he had been doing
00:07:21i or cross you know you know me for why cross my heart hope to
00:07:25die i had modic room of an idea that the
00:07:29institutional work required to build a solid foundation for this country i
00:07:32had no idea that would do it when he was coming
00:07:36because we had become so used to they will say they will do restructuring they won't do
00:07:40it they will say they will do st police they w talk about it,
00:07:43became locked in the mind of thinking that the
00:07:47only thing anybody that wants to be president in our country wants to do is just the
00:07:51basic everyday things and then when he came on
00:07:55broad, began to listen to the
00:07:57noise of people say they are hungry, subsidy
00:08:01is this that, and that the for
00:08:03me to say, okay, let me take a look at him a little bit and say what
00:08:06exactly is this president trying to
00:08:09do, i the said
00:08:13to myself, wow, is this what he is trying to
00:08:17do? one, if you remove the
00:08:21subsidy we introduce, let me,
00:08:25let me help,
00:08:28let me help, i'm not started talking about policy, unless you want me to answer this question
00:08:31on this platform, if you start with the fact that that
00:08:35thing the cause subsidy, how did we even introduced it
00:08:39to our country, we did it around 1973, okay? and we
00:08:43started thinking that there must be a way for us
00:08:46to mitigate the cost
00:08:49of petrol and all of that and make
00:08:53it unity in the country and cover
00:08:57some different season landing course and all of that and all
00:09:01that and we run it from
00:09:041973-45 until we got to
00:09:072003 wearing
00:09:11contrary to what most people say, the
00:09:15immediate past president had not even budgeted for
00:09:19it, that meant that effectively, as at May
00:09:2329, 2023,
00:09:27when he took that out of office, if you want to say he's guilty of
00:09:30anything, he's only guilty of telling us the truth, because there was no provision
00:09:34for it. the second thing is, you don't have to say, okay, countries
00:09:38that are like ours, between 1987.
00:09:438 to 2003, what did we
00:09:47see in terms their developmental direction and the
00:09:51results? almost every oil producing
00:09:55country in the world had scaled up on infrastructure,
00:09:59had reform his economy, had tried to ensure that they
00:10:02were doing other things beyond just burning money and being stupid,
00:10:06they were already a point where they
00:10:09were even divesting. and making the
00:10:13economy to do all that, including tourism and what are you? what were we
00:10:17here doing? we were align our country to pretend
00:10:21as if it was servicing the poor, whereas what we created.
00:10:25is a big heist for the people who have
00:10:29those type of access to convert our country into
00:10:32a place where we just bleed our money at great cost.
00:10:36okay, we could have continued bleeding it assuming we had the money. as
00:10:40at may 29,
00:10:432023, we had gotten to point that total amount of
00:10:47money available, if they had up to that, if they could cash back it
00:10:51was about three or four billion US dollar all over. "we
00:10:55had gotten to point where because the recklessness of how they
00:10:59were managing this same subsidy, we
00:11:02had used up all the head room even to get
00:11:06facility to loan, we now became a people that
00:11:09were pledging our
00:11:12future crude sales just to get
00:11:16money from capital or money markets in Europe, we got to
00:11:20point
00:11:21AO where we couldn't even get airlines to respect us." " some
00:11:25them reacted by pulling out, and then you come to
00:11:29a place, anybody who
00:11:30is not brave like him, who does not have the heart of a of
00:11:33tiger or even braver tiger,
00:11:35than he will just get onto that se that day, and
00:11:39he will just drop the gunlet and leave, but because a man
00:11:43who had been spending all of his life in preparation
00:11:47for a responsibility, he took
00:11:51on the boding, he did the most remarkable thing by
00:11:55even accepting that he owns both the asset and
00:11:59the liability of his predecessors and ran very hard
00:12:02until we are here now and you are now shouting well done you people are saying you
00:12:06are poor please does the nigerian nation
00:12:09have a framework by which is going to be dashing people
00:12:13money our salaries not paid our pensions
00:12:17not paid what kind of get within the framework at
00:12:21the time 38% of you the
00:12:25total vote cast in 2023, what percentage is the others
00:12:28get? did they get more? so we run this
00:12:32country on the principle of simple majority
00:12:36and and 25% into third states. what
00:12:39they
00:12:40are saying worse people don't turn out, it is their, it is
00:12:44on them. the responsibility of political parties is to
00:12:48canvas, is to market is to stimulate.
00:12:51this discipline required, don't you think? the ab
00:12:55what they call the abisimal performance of this administration has now
00:12:59strengthened the articles of this sort and Peter will be of
00:13:03this sort and they are stronger now i would have
00:13:06preferred you didn't even mention their names because you force me to have to do a conversation
00:13:10around them let's start with
00:13:12peter for all of
00:13:16his fabostery jumping here jumping there the greatest thing
00:13:20they can bring to the table emotionally is the need for us to do
00:13:24equity. see for the southeast because they have not been president in
00:13:28at least in this republic, you saying it should not be viewed in that person, can you
00:13:32just can't say whatever he wants from his mouth, i'm telling you that is one the biggest
00:13:36things that look please,
00:13:39please, any man who makes
00:13:43it a habit to bost that a nation of 220
00:13:46million people, he is saint, and yet he cannot
00:13:50produce people that work for him to back up that is sainthood, yet we
00:13:54visit. and realize that what have these people done there? you can't go to
00:13:58ak and go to ano and be thinking that the saint pass through anambrana, you would rather
00:14:02say saints are passed through, and then
00:14:05they talk about we didn't leave that, we didn't leave that, his successor and all his
00:14:08successors from time have been saying that's not the true position of thing,
00:14:12because we don't want to get into a breakbat argument with him, that does
00:14:16not mean the things he saying are totally correct, any case what is he campaigning
00:14:20on? peter is master of campaigning a
00:14:24pros that he doesn't even. to construct, he will say, i'm going to
00:14:28run production to develop, consumption to production, when you
00:14:31try to listen deep, okay, what does he
00:14:34mean? he will run to the landmarks of
00:14:38Niger and say, because the landmarks of Niger is more than that
00:14:41of Europe, therefore they can produce all the food, he will not put
00:14:45context, by what magic is it going to force them to the farm,
00:14:48by what magic is he going to ensure, by what magic is he going to do the
00:14:52incentive, what is the cost component of what? is trying to do, what is the time
00:14:56frame by which you will implement it? has he taken into consideration that in this
00:15:00country almost every government has thrown in lot of money into agriculture and yet it has
00:15:04gone down the drain, and when you give him a pulse for say okay, maybe you will be able to
00:15:08fight corruption, then the question you will then begin to say that okay, here this guy
00:15:12doesn't want to, this guy wants to fight corruption, and then it gets to the ludicrous level of
00:15:15telling you that he's going to do it by himself, he will go around the state, the country will stay
00:15:19the days after saying the days he will not consider that is going to have national
00:15:23assembly that has to pass budget. he will not consider the broocracy, he will just
00:15:27imagine that hly becomes president, they are just going to say, okay,
00:15:31king Peter of Linus kingdom, now you can start doing anything
00:15:34you like, nobody will answer, that's a joke now, no, it lies
00:15:38lot, his daughters are, see it was
00:15:42as the minister she was called, she was the first person to
00:15:46make me start looking as his data, i said hey, where is mr, where is
00:15:49mr. some of this is data and this statistic is not all
00:15:53that, i think that thing they call
00:15:57it platform, and when she then said that, i then began
00:16:01to pay bigger attention, what's
00:16:03this guy's doing, what's he trying to do, all the people who
00:16:06know
00:16:07number with tell you, I give you one story that will shock you, he wanted to
00:16:11do the election of Valentine Ozigo, while he was in
00:16:14PDP, Valentine at the match as the candidate, which was his
00:16:18preferred candidate, I went to Annambra and I realized that lot the big
00:16:22players there were not supporting or they were a bit look one, I
00:16:26came back, I started disturbing all the leaders, why are you not
00:16:29joining, you
00:16:31so me, they say, ah, Peter likes to work alone, he doesn't like anybody to join,
00:16:34I said, okay, let us go and beg, okay, we
00:16:37agree, we will now tell him to let us
00:16:41have dikora, obiora, who is the md, the one that
00:16:45owns united airline who also cont come and partner and be
00:16:49the secondly person, the deputy
00:16:51to valentine, so you can walk,
00:16:55you know what happen, you did the call the meeting for them to take that, peter conveniently did
00:16:59not go, and is people that when they are conveniently insisted that it was his
00:17:02own pre-chosing candidate that won that will be the ticket, so he
00:17:06wanted to...
00:17:08the the
00:17:08the the governor, he wanted to have the deputy, and what was the result? he lost
00:17:11i th called i said, look dude, you lost
00:17:14with, you have lost
00:17:18with the other
00:17:19guy,
00:17:24you have lost this place back to back, we
00:17:28need a different kind of game, that's the one that
00:17:32you want me to drop b for, you must be kidding, if you want to
00:17:36compare his record with whatever you say, go and tell me whether even you as a
00:17:40Nigerian, I not from Lagos State, whether you are not even proud
00:17:44the framework that allows refinary to stay there,
00:17:47seat to stay there, and all the great things happening there, or you are not
00:17:51proud the fact that when you go even the island,
00:17:55you can see the number of human beings who have emptied into, any case does Peter
00:17:59even stay to build a party, he will have a
00:18:02problem,
00:18:03you guys are talking, you are talking about him because it's a bigger threat that you see.
00:18:07ask a question, listen, if you had not asked me about him, i have
00:18:11no, he's going to lose, are you
00:18:14sure? cockshore, he's going to
00:18:18lose, look, he's going to lose, he's just going to be
00:18:22screaming with his small small boots that be shouting, they
00:18:25not go, they not go great down freaking what, now let's go to
00:18:28article, that is one that puts a dager in my
00:18:32chest, in two circles i actually
00:18:36did think, that the idea of
00:18:39private sector running government efficiently,
00:18:43that that was his mo, and we
00:18:47spoke
00:18:47to read, we talked about it and I did so much, as matter of
00:18:51fact, I kept saying to him and he knows I keep saying that, look man, you are the
00:18:55man in the arena, don't worry about the outcome pas
00:18:59say, history can capture you as the one that even
00:19:02made the democracy, because somebody has to compete, and I will got
00:19:06more money. he goes and do a
00:19:10write about of everything he has stood for and represented in his
00:19:14life and says what he knows
00:19:17work oh we are going to return when
00:19:20it could start being the champion the poor is it by
00:19:24his lifestyle is
00:19:26it the grandiosity is it the fact that he identify for replacement for
00:19:30bar in the north
00:19:31may did
00:19:35not become baari because he was going to around saying
00:19:38today, x tomorrow, from the day he started is everybody know he was no non
00:19:42nonsense leader on anti-corruption, now you have a situation on your hand, you are
00:19:46saying things that you yourself, ah how would this work? okay, let me consider you
00:19:50are smart enough and you can make you work. did you think that the
00:19:54people who introduce subsidy in 1973 did not think it will
00:19:57work? we work that journey, one leader go, one leader come, we saw the
00:20:01result i think we have just barely gone, article looks more formidable
00:20:05this 2007, he is formidable because buse is only candidate coming from the
00:20:09north,
00:20:10you know, I beg you, don't join the
00:20:14free of people who think that only one person can harvest votes from the
00:20:18north, even for the article, do you know how many
00:20:21generation of fine men his
00:20:24ambition has destroyed,
00:20:27because those were governors in 1999 who
00:20:31are governors, where are they, those who were northern boys who were
00:20:35governors in 2003, where are they? those were governors in 2007,
00:20:39where are they? 2011, where are they? 2015, where are they?
00:20:432019, where are they? 2020, does that
00:20:46mean that? he
00:20:50thinks that his life is
00:20:54only to be lived around an
00:20:57ambition that represent him being the only one that
00:21:01knows, any man who cannot throw up mentors cannot throw up
00:21:04anybody now, even at the level the president, b has already thrown up
00:21:08a mentor, a menti who at least became vice president before
00:21:12him, which of his own have been anything apart from
00:21:16every time, do
00:21:16you know what one leader said to me from balchi one day when i many years ago when
00:21:20i went to beg
00:21:22you guys please yes
00:21:26he said when is he going to have ambition
00:21:30fatigue we have been sting we have been moving
00:21:34for him since 92 is there not a day himself even look at us and
00:21:38say oh i have groomed you people here come and run them up okay we are now
00:21:41here makes it worse we run this country
00:21:45a strict principle of pendulum that died was no
00:21:49mass making. and we even see reverted it back to the
00:21:52pendulum, we've just done in eight years
00:21:55of great man, fine man, keeps his word,
00:21:59maintains integrity, and he doesn't even see one that he
00:22:03even owes the evil, because you can go and look
00:22:06at his number, but 2023 when Peter was running, they gave him
00:22:09100% their support, and he has no capacity to imagine that, okay,
00:22:13I'm older now, these are younger men, can't i back one, assuming you cannot
00:22:17even back, so there is no younger. northern person he can
00:22:21back that they can bring to us and we can feel this a bit of freshness, why
00:22:25must we die on the on the June 12th on the mandate to shall stand
00:22:29forever, especially when one the sons from his
00:22:32classroom, me and you we went to school together, teacher thought
00:22:36both of us, his name is many years after
00:22:40after all the wall, including the man paying his price, one of us have won the
00:22:44presidency, do you not think that the right thing to do for nation like this is
00:22:48collaboration so that we can just okay from everything our master has taught
00:22:51us, we want to build an ark, handshake
00:22:54over, must be you, okay,
00:22:58leave that, you have taken all the political
00:23:02parties that you have been in, none them are satisfied you, you
00:23:06had vice presidency with abbaso, i the one that to go and be fighting like small
00:23:10children there, like babies, other people have been vice president in this
00:23:14country after, have you heard f just coming to be fighting themselves
00:23:18any anyway, okay now you did that? then you went and joined
00:23:21them
00:23:23and we shouldn't
00:23:26stay when you finished then you came back and said you
00:23:30wanted to try and do another thing with them you didn't win then you
00:23:34when
00:23:35you stay could
00:23:35then have maybe made
00:23:37it for youg for you to did you listen
00:23:40you stay when you join them to go and what's his
00:23:44name new pdp carr
00:23:48and go and PC did I not want you that what are people
00:23:52doing? You went in there, you could not stay, they even won the election,
00:23:55Buhari even won the election, ordinary congratulation was
00:23:59hard, people sat down there, you couldn't even stay, now you
00:24:03February finishes the first time, you couldn't stay, guari
00:24:07finishes the second time, people are shouting, you are hearing oh, your country say
00:24:10is the south of this, you went there, your ambition destroyed
00:24:13PDPtically, and when
00:24:15they even we still managed to squiz, you gave you the ticket, you didn't
00:24:19win, then..." you now decided that you want to do please, you
00:24:23not decided that you want to do coalition, you
00:24:27could not, could not do that coalition around the PDP that has
00:24:31given him almost everything, he goes now, jumps
00:24:35himself into another new part, they didn't look
00:24:38well, they have lot of legal issue, if they
00:24:42cannot sleep in the night is tinum, if their child is not doing well
00:24:46it, if their wives are not smiling at them,
00:24:50they do not break their break, what kind of nonsense is this? if that is their own type of
00:24:54politics, are we should not play that type of
00:24:57politics? finally, that's why i created the alternative that we may
00:25:01begin to look for younger fresher guys and if
00:25:04president federal republic, even if he cannot do anything, let him sit there
00:25:08on the 20th so he can just help us retire them and fresh air
00:25:12can blow on younger, sharper, more capable
00:25:15people, more difficult,
00:25:19okay? the reality on ground now,
00:25:21what is that reality? that the pathway that he did even win Legos States,
00:25:25that is not sure that is going to get substantial votes even within the
00:25:28southwest, looking at
00:25:30what is happened in osum state, looking at what happened in state, the
00:25:33APM state has a presidential candidate,
00:25:36which is what a presidential candidate, look my friend
00:25:40anybody that cannot read the mood the nation is
00:25:43clown, we're barely struggling to
00:25:47agree that even the one euroban that is there. the others are still
00:25:51struggling, the ebos have not produced presidency in this republic
00:25:55and did to many others, the not
00:25:57we are even still begging in other gentlemen so that we don't destroy our country, let us respect the
00:26:01principle, then you actually... think that one
00:26:05boy from ibadon will now tell the whole world in Nigeria that
00:26:09let him come and start a fresh mandate for look you think is
00:26:12joking he's clowning about i've just come back from
00:26:16your now i went did oyo did a deep dive did
00:26:20interview take all the voxp then came
00:26:24to did so much opened up a campaign
00:26:27council that is alternative fully fully at the grass
00:26:31road
00:27:02so G1 now you imagine will be G1, he will be
00:27:06contending with the political capacity of people like and let me
00:27:10quickly go on that wicky thing, because I see people in APC
00:27:13acting like they have no, with due respect, no
00:27:17capacity to see properly, do they
00:27:21know the number of people
00:27:25that are PDP sympathizers who are
00:27:29now fully committed to the election the president of... because
00:27:33of wik do they know what the structure even in that small
00:27:36cano is do they know his structure in the they can joke
00:27:40because people are willing to help them in their party they
00:27:44would have they would have been smelling their asses if we
00:27:48had decided that no we are not
00:27:51interested.
00:28:02Anyway wish you the best of luck,
00:28:04I wish you the best of luck too, I always anytime I see you, you
00:28:08always a delight to watch and um I hope before the election
00:28:12you will join us again, if you invite me I'll come, all right, thank you, it's still
00:28:15politics on Sunday, we'll be back after this time out, please stay with us, we'll be
00:28:19right
00:28:20back,
00:28:29oh yeah, wake up, we are so back.
00:28:33At that naja, you can't lose this EPL season,
00:28:36no shaking, no panicking, win or get
00:28:40your money back, drop your ePR bed this
00:28:44weekend, and if it doesn't land, we're giving your stake back
00:28:48as a
00:28:48bonus,
00:28:54bet naja, we are so back, not for persons under the age of 18,
00:28:58responsibly, the world needs
00:29:00moms. With a
00:29:04splash of golden terra oil, a mom can
00:29:07transform a frown into a smile.
00:29:10Change no thanks into yes
00:29:14please, resolve family fudes without blowing
00:29:18a whistle. Providing tasty family meals
00:29:21is all that matters. Where there are moms, there is love.
00:29:25Golin terra oil, poor pure
00:29:28love, bless your
00:29:31bit.
00:29:44I know I lost
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00:30:52ria, this is nine, mean this has to be six, mean look at
00:30:56this critically, you see that if you look at this critically, it is six.