Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:02:38to get this train back on But for now, the situation is such that a town of defenders of the current shape of this tribunal has set up camp
00:02:41outside its headquarters, and MP Czarnek promises hundreds
00:02:45of thousands of Poles in demonstrations, in defense of the current
00:02:48shape of the Constitutional Tribunal, should anyone wish to raise political
00:02:51hands against this shape. Where does this
00:02:55fervent defense of an institution that they themselves
00:02:58liquidated come from among politicians? We have more questions on this matter, our guests in
00:03:02the studio are Mrs. Barbara Dolniak, Civic
00:03:04Coalition.
00:03:08Andrzej Szejna,
00:03:09Left,
00:03:12MP Bartłomiej Pejo,
00:03:13Confederation,
00:03:17and Professor Karol Karski, Law and Justice. Welcome,
00:03:20Professor.
00:03:22Today we want to ask you, because part of this dispute is also based
00:03:26on the fact that the president has a rather peculiar
00:03:30attitude towards candidates elected by the Sejm, there are considerable
00:03:33problems with the punctuality of the swearing-in, the place of the swearing-in,
00:03:37and the willingness to swear in, so today we ask you, do you think
00:03:40the president should swear in all candidates elected
00:03:44correctly by the Sejm, you have our SMS poll or
00:03:48the X platform at your disposal, we await your votes on this matter, now a brief reminder
00:03:52of the emotions that have accompanied this story for some
00:03:54time.
00:04:02the oath of office has been
00:04:06accepted by the president, this is an attempt to challenge the president's
00:04:09competencies derived from the constitution, they have the right to take the oath and
00:04:13inform the president, this is their responsibility, this is simply
00:04:17destroying the state, destroying the rule of law, we expect
00:04:20the president to show that he treats Poland as a common
00:04:24duty and a common responsibility, not a field of constant battle, we want to
00:04:28immediately proceed to... Until
00:04:34I am informed by the president that these people have taken
00:04:37the oath of office before the president, they will not
00:04:40establish an official relationship and will not become
00:04:44tribunal judges. You chose Maciej Berek for the position
00:04:47of judge. I will devote all my knowledge and
00:04:51legal experience to this mission, to this goal, so that
00:04:54the tribunal starts performing its constitutional function correctly, because it is not performing it.
00:04:57You forgot about your slogans.
00:05:00You forgot about those shouts, constitution, rule of law,
00:05:04Mr. Berek is already a judge of the tribunal, and the president and his tasks
00:05:07are only
00:05:08organizational.
00:05:15nothing indicates the end of this story, but
00:05:18do you, I'll start with the MP, do you
00:05:22imagine a situation where the police enter the tribunal's headquarters,
00:05:26apprehend Mr. Święczkowski red-handed, as we hear, because he does not
00:05:29want to accept a correctly elected judge,
00:05:33the balance of power in the Constitutional Tribunal changes, it starts
00:05:36functioning normally, do you imagine such a situation at all, I never
00:05:40imagined at all that it could... lead to a situation
00:05:43in a democratic state where the tribunal cannot
00:05:47function in full composition, because, ladies and gentlemen, the Constitutional Tribunal
00:05:51consists of 15 judges, and Bogdan
00:05:55Sięczkowski hand in hand with the president
00:05:58are causing this tribunal to actually
00:06:01not be able to convene in even the smallest full
00:06:04composition, I don't know what decisions will be made, because they are not
00:06:08up to me, I ask the lawyer, do you imagine
00:06:12such a police action at all? It doesn't
00:06:15have to be a lawyer, editor, for him to, it would be difficult
00:06:19for him to imagine a situation
00:06:22where bodies such as the police enter the
00:06:26Constitutional Tribunal, because it is an organ whose task
00:06:29is to defend us citizens against, we all know,
00:06:33the legislative power passing incorrect
00:06:36laws, but we must clearly say, ladies and gentlemen, in
00:06:39a state of law, every citizen expects
00:07:03every day violates the law, is
00:07:06obliged in accordance with the code, and in fact
00:07:10is already currently facing liability under article:
00:07:42As you can see, President Karol Nawrocki, Law and Justice, Mr.
00:07:46Święczkowski, i.e., the governor of Law and Justice in the Constitutional
00:07:49Tribunal, wanted it to last forever, because the Constitutional
00:07:52Tribunal became such a machine for issuing
00:07:56political rulings on behalf of Pis, or on
00:07:59behalf of Karol Nawrocki, who either refers it to the tribunal,
00:08:03stating that he will not sign it, and in
00:08:06this situation the Constitutional Tribunal must either rule
00:08:09on the unconstitutionality of a legal act that he does not like. Or
00:08:13else that act is supposed to get stuck there, what is this all about? It's about the fact that,
00:08:16dear ladies and gentlemen, let's remember who heads
00:08:20the Constitutional Tribunal, it's a person who ran
00:08:24from the Pis lists to the provincial assembly and was elected
00:08:28as an MP and is a colleague of Zbigniew Ziobro, who is currently in
00:08:31forced exile, because he fled from justice and was
00:08:34also his right-hand man in the prosecution, and the deputy
00:08:38in the Constitutional Tribunal is a judge who was a councilor...
00:09:17that the Constitutional Tribunal rules on matters concerning all of us, an example of this is the care benefit,
00:09:20when the tribunal ruled that it does not only concern
00:09:23immediate family members, but also someone who takes care of a person with
00:09:26disabilities, is also entitled to such a care benefit,
00:09:30or in 2022,
00:09:32on October 22nd, when the Constitutional Tribunal,
00:09:36at the request of Pis, stated that
00:09:39the premise that allowed for... legal
00:09:43abortion, i.e., severe, irreversible fetal damage is
00:09:46inconsistent, but the question was different, how do you imagine it, what
00:09:49does the minister mean,
00:09:53the situation is, if we move to the analysis of the situation in the tribunal, in which
00:09:57if the president, who of course will not
00:10:01do so, had accepted the oath from all legally elected
00:10:04judges by the Sejm, who became
00:10:08were elected and became judges of the Constitutional Tribunal at the time
00:10:12of the elections. had accepted the oath, well, then it would
00:10:14have so happened after the election of Mr.
00:10:18Judge Maciej Berek, that the majority in this
00:10:21tribunal would be judges, judges.
00:10:25who are legally elected, who are independent,
00:10:28impartial, which would mean that the power of Mr.
00:10:30Święczkowski and Pis could be
00:10:33liquidated, so what can be done? Well, you know, actually, the obstacle
00:10:37today to the Constitutional Tribunal operating in accordance with the law is its
00:10:41president, so what needs to be done, the president, its president
00:10:44breaking the law, breaking the constitution, which he
00:10:47swore and pledged to
00:10:50defend, defends the interests of Pis and defends this arrangement, this arrangement,
00:10:54which... well, it seems that only Minister Żurek knows
00:10:57how the situation today is very simple, if for
00:11:00a moment, if for a moment Mr. Święczkowski
00:11:04stopped presiding over the Constitutional
00:11:06Tribunal as president, and any
00:11:10of them, either his deputy or the longest-serving
00:11:13judge, took over the leadership, then it would be
00:11:16possible to convene a general assembly of all
00:11:20judges who had taken the oath before the president and were legally elected
00:11:24by the Sejm, we could
00:11:27change the position of president of the Constitutional Tribunal and
00:11:31restore its functioning, but that would require
00:11:34several steps, which Minister Żurek is probably considering,
00:11:37including lifting the immunity of Mr.
00:11:41Judge, for this it is necessary to introduce this elected four, in fact
00:11:44six, seven at this point already I
00:11:46believe, we still need to get back to this topic, but I must activate Professor Karski, do you
00:11:50like such a tribunal?
00:11:52You
00:11:58asked, editor, what can be done in this situation, I think
00:12:01that the only solution is to reach a consensus among
00:12:04all parliamentary
00:12:07groups, the Constitutional
00:12:10Tribunal, like every state
00:12:13body, can be very easily
00:12:15derailed, here we have such a situation in
00:12:192015, after all, we all remember, it started
00:12:23with the election by.
00:12:34and it is easy, it is easy to derail such an institution, a constitutional
00:12:37body, but then it is difficult to
00:12:41rebuild it, I compare it to such a railway
00:12:45catastrophe, where these tracks, these
00:12:47wagons, this locomotive will no longer serve any purpose, they can only go to
00:12:51scrap, but where do you see room for such a discussion, I think...
00:12:55such a moment will come when we will all be able to
00:12:58reach an understanding, otherwise it cannot be done, you are saying many
00:13:02words, you are saying,
00:13:04you are putting forward theses, which are not covered
00:13:08by the content of the constitution, by the content of laws,
00:13:12if we go in order, Professor, which one, for example,
00:13:15for example, that from the moment
00:13:18of election, the person elected to
00:13:21the office of judge of the Constitutional Tribunal takes up their office.
00:13:25You only read the provision stating that the Sejm
00:13:28elects judges of the Constitutional Tribunal, but you do not read
00:13:32the provision of Article 197 of the Constitution,
00:13:35which obliges the Parliament to define
00:13:39the organization of the tribunal in the form of a law, or also its composition,
00:13:43principles
00:13:43of functioning,
00:13:49the law states that the oath is taken before
00:13:52the president.
00:14:26The President is bound by the resolution of the Sejm, so it cannot be
00:14:30that the President, for example, I don't know, accepts the judicial oath from someone
00:14:34other than the one elected by, or only from
00:14:37some, well, no, so here's the problem, that
00:14:41this constitutional norm is still very clear, the constitution does not
00:14:45directly require that the oath of office from persons elected to
00:14:48the position of judge be taken by the president,
00:14:52the oath is undoubtedly important,
00:15:15the role of the president is only and exclusively to
00:15:19receive the oath of legally and correctly elected
00:15:22judges.
00:15:28They also missed something, Professor, exactly we are
00:15:32dealing with three statements,
00:15:36exactly the statement.
00:16:07to the Marshal of the Sejm, here the then MP
00:16:11Piotrowicz describes a model that was to be
00:16:13adopted, not the one that is, this was to be
00:16:17a return to the model from before 1997,
00:16:21because then, before the currently binding constitution, under the force
00:16:25of earlier statutory provisions, the oath was also
00:16:29taken before the Marshal of the Sejm, and what
00:16:32model did the President describe, and what model did the MP describe, President Duda.
00:16:35Did he describe such a model? And President
00:16:37Duda described a situation in which, with which we are dealing,
00:16:41that the president is obliged to swear in
00:16:44people who have been elected, as long as
00:16:47this obligation of his is updated, meaning
00:16:50as long as we are dealing with a situation where the Sejm elected
00:16:53the right person who meets the criteria defined in
00:16:56the constitution, defined in laws, the president
00:17:00has the right, has the obligation to take the
00:17:04oath and as explained by the Constitutional Tribunal in
00:17:07its judgment K34/15
00:17:10of December 3,
00:17:132015, then acting under
00:17:15the presidency of President Andrzej Żepliński,
00:17:19the president has the obligation to take the oath, but in
00:17:22certain situations he cannot, and is even obliged
00:17:25to refrain from taking such an oath, when there are
00:17:29doubts as to the formal aspects of the election,
00:17:33or when new circumstances have emerged
00:17:36after the election, which...
00:17:46because he didn't even justify it, he delays, he breaks
00:17:49the constitution and that's the truth, you too, sitting
00:17:52with us today and having the viewers of
00:17:56this program before you, will not name a single premise, even
00:17:59though the president generally has no right not to accept the oath, but if you wanted
00:18:03to delve into this flawed interpretation differently.
00:18:09You will not name even a single reason why the president should not or
00:18:13could not accept the oath of judges currently elected
00:18:16by the Sejm, and you know that well, I know it and
00:18:19everyone knows it, the president does not accept this oath for political
00:18:23reasons, not all politicians have spoken yet, I had the impression that the MP was
00:18:27smiling while listening to this discussion, yes, because dear sirs, I will
00:18:31still want to reply later, you will have the right, Professor, I promise, I am not
00:18:35a lawyer, most Poles are not either. No,
00:18:38no, he does not practice law, but when you listen to
00:18:42both sides, we have the impression, and
00:18:45I think I speak for the majority of Poles here, that we
00:18:49live in some kind of state, I don't know, some Bantustan, you are trying to appropriate
00:18:52what in democratic states should always be
00:18:55such a neutral and apolitical space,
00:18:59for at least a dozen years, either for Law and
00:19:02Justice or now for the ruling party, well, everyone
00:19:06knows perfectly well that at this moment the nomination
00:19:09of Mr. Berek is nothing other than the placement
00:19:13of another politician, but from the other side, meaning first Law and
00:19:16Justice did nothing to politicize
00:19:19even the judiciary and the Constitutional
00:19:22Tribunal in 2015, the Professor
00:19:25himself just spoke about it and
00:19:29for 8 years it went on and still continues, and now you want
00:19:33to, as a kind of life raft, choose
00:19:36other politicians, to make
00:19:39decisions according to your will, and that's how it unfortunately looks,
00:19:43well, Mr. Berek, editor, is nobody else
00:19:46but a politician, well, he was responsible for the policy of this government,
00:19:49he was the right hand, as Prime Minister Donald Tusk
00:19:52claimed, one day he is a minister
00:19:56and a politician, and the next day he is supposed to be independent, don't you have the impression, MP,
00:19:59that there is some battle going on over an organ that does
00:20:02not work, that does not exist, what's more,
00:20:06about which... time has shown that it is irrelevant,
00:20:09unnecessary, well, time has shown that Poland continues without this
00:20:13tribunal, it does not function, that until now time has shown that it is unnecessary,
00:20:17although I don't fully agree, because the MP also spoke about these
00:20:20simply human issues, well, often we have the impression that this Constitutional
00:20:24Tribunal is unnecessary, but in such cases, as even the MP
00:20:27described, it is necessary, decisions should be made
00:20:30there favorable to citizens,
00:20:34not politicians, and therefore we need to draw
00:20:38a thick line on this judiciary in general, and especially on
00:20:41the Constitutional Tribunal and make decisions across political divisions,
00:20:44we have been talking for several years as a confederation about a constitutional
00:20:48reset and we say and appeal to
00:20:51everyone from all sides of the political scene, but
00:20:55there is no such will, well yesterday in the program, for example, MP
00:20:58Szczucki agreed that
00:21:01finally at least they as this new creation and
00:21:05a splinter of Law and Justice are in favor of this, from the side of Law and Justice we do
00:21:09not hear such specifics, we invited all parliamentary
00:21:12clubs to sit at this table in the Sejm, at such
00:21:16an independent table and finally make decisions that sometimes some...
00:21:50elected members of the Constitutional Tribunal, and that is not the case, as
00:21:53I said, the constitution must be read holistically
00:21:56and the provision stating that the Sejm
00:22:00elects judges of the Constitutional
00:22:03Tribunal, also Article
00:22:06197, which obliges
00:22:09Parliament to issue a law defining the status
00:22:13of judges and the organization of the tribunal under which
00:22:16law the institution of oath exists, which...
00:22:20the constitution, whose constitutionality was confirmed by the Constitutional
00:22:23Tribunal of President Żepliński, finally
00:22:27the provision of the constitution which states that the president is
00:22:30the guardian of observing the constitution, he
00:22:33assesses the situation, he
00:22:36makes decisions that are intended to ensure he elects members
00:22:39of the tribunal, well yes, he accepts, he gave
00:22:42himself the right to create it, the constitution gave him that
00:22:46right,
00:22:48in Article 190. seventh and stating that
00:22:52the organization of the tribunal is defined by law and in the constitutional provision
00:22:56stating that the president is the guardian
00:23:00of observing the constitution, performing its provisions, so where is the constitution
00:23:03broken when the Sejm elects, no,
00:23:06absolutely, the constitution is not broken, but we are
00:23:09dealing with a situation where the Sejm makes a choice,
00:23:13however, and such a person at that moment becomes a judge
00:23:16elect, however, at the moment of taking the oath... this
00:23:20clarifies, the law clarifies, the constitutionality
00:23:23of which was confirmed by the Constitutional Tribunal in 2015,
00:23:26this law states that the oath is taken before
00:23:30the president and that only
00:23:33then the president of the Constitutional Tribunal
00:23:36allows such a person to rule and that it is only at
00:23:39the moment of taking the oath before the president that a
00:23:43relationship
00:23:46situation, that the Sejm can choose whomever it wants,
00:23:50completely legally, in accordance, in accordance with every procedure, meaning not whomever
00:23:54it wants, but a person who meets the criteria
00:23:56of the constitution, then President decides whether something will be,
00:24:00we hear here from Professor Karski, who says that the president
00:24:04should guard the constitution, so how does he guard
00:24:07the constitution, when he breaks Article
00:24:1194 directly, I'm sorry, he wants to be an appellate
00:24:14body from the decisions of the court in this matter, because I'm not very
00:24:18able to even explain what role he attributes to himself,
00:24:21the president listens to the oath, this
00:24:24oath is taken before the president, who
00:24:27represents the nation, because if we look at the law
00:24:31concerning the status of judges of the Constitutional
00:24:33Tribunal, it is clearly written that
00:24:36judges take the oath before
00:24:39the nation, and the president is the representative of this
00:24:43nation, elected in general elections, therefore
00:24:46it is not true that he accepts the oath from...
00:25:28This is the wording in the judge's oath, very
00:25:31important, but I will just finish, editor, briefly,
00:25:34remember that a judge must take
00:25:37the oath within 30 days, and now imagine
00:25:40a situation where these judges had not taken the oath, what would
00:25:44Professor Karski be shouting today? Well, they didn't take
00:25:47the oath.
00:25:50there is no deadline for taking this oath, no, because the court in
00:25:542000 in case K34/15 stated that it should
00:25:58happen immediately and we all know what
00:26:00that means.
00:26:32except for the exception, which is Mr.
00:26:36Maciej Berek, so it needs to be clarified
00:26:40whether he meets the formal conditions, however,
00:26:43the others, well, if he did, then also, I absolutely do not
00:26:46have, I have no objections to the competence of Minister
00:26:50Berek, because I think all politicians,
00:26:53and also people working with Mr. Berek consider Mr.
00:26:57Berek to be a competent person, however, it is about formal issues, also
00:27:00the provisions of the constitution and so on, which he should meet, well, at
00:27:04this moment we have a discrepancy here, as often
00:27:07happens, whether Minister Berek has this experience as a legal advisor or
00:27:11not, that needs to be clarified, because after clarification, President considers,
00:27:14this procedure of establishing once and for all
00:27:17whether he has these competencies or not takes a long time, editor, you asked an interesting question, can
00:27:21the police enter the Constitutional Tribunal, I will say this, in the history
00:27:25of Poland it would not be an isolated act, it
00:27:28reminds me of the partition sejm,
00:27:32the Grodno sejm, when
00:27:36the constitutional, in today's understanding of the word,
00:27:39organ of the Republic made the decision to ratify
00:27:42the third partition of Poland in the presence of Russian
00:27:46soldiers in the session hall, this is precisely the direction of the commentary
00:27:49of the representative of Pis,
00:27:52I have more
00:27:54recent historical experiences and memories, very, very
00:27:58sad, from the actions
00:28:01under the dictates of the prosecutor's office of Mr. Zbigniew
00:28:03Ziobro, when the police entered Mrs. Barbara Blida's house and she
00:28:06died, so you know, you have various
00:28:10acts on your conscience when it comes to
00:28:13abuse of power and the prosecutor's office, that's one thing, and
00:28:16the other is this, the MP asked about
00:28:19Mr. Maciej Berek about this formal condition, yes, he
00:28:23is a legal advisor, I just raised a doubt, so I answer you, he
00:28:26is a legal advisor, listed in the register of legal
00:28:29advisors, and in accordance with the article of the law on legal advisors, he
00:28:33can perform his profession in various
00:28:37ways, and among others, by providing employment
00:28:40contracts and in the framework of this employment contract,
00:28:44providing legal advice, and he
00:28:45did so, employed in the chancellery
00:28:55very flexibly, a letter came from
00:28:58the dean of the regional chamber of advisors.
00:30:02your question, is this their specific attempt
00:30:05to maintain the independence of the tribunal
00:30:08or rather to maintain
00:30:11the political status quo they built over 8 years? Please don't
00:30:15mix the confederation, sorry, with this building, because
00:30:18here do you remember when MP
00:30:21Bosak still belonged to the League of Polish Families, whom
00:30:24he nominated together with
00:30:25Giertych,
00:30:29it got terribly tangled, those are slippery grounds.
00:30:44there is nothing in it that would fix anything,
00:30:48sorry Szymon Sierpatowski new generation Civic Coalition, I have a question for
00:30:51Professor Karski about whether after what you see, what we
00:30:55see
00:30:57regarding the Constitutional Tribunal, you do not regret that
00:31:01you, as... the then government of Law and Justice,
00:31:04introduced your people, among others, to the Constitutional
00:31:07Tribunal in such a way that unfortunately most
00:31:11Poles lost trust in an institution that for many years was.
00:31:34very interesting question, because indeed before that, such a standard had developed,
00:31:37that the people who are elected to
00:31:40the tribunal are distinguished lawyers, but Also...
00:31:51we chose
00:31:55people who met formal criteria, who were
00:31:59outstanding lawyers. You have, for
00:32:02example, remarks sometimes about
00:32:04Ms.
00:32:06Krystyna Pawłowicz, before she was a Member of Parliament, then a judge, who
00:32:10is an outstanding specialist in the field of public law,
00:32:14an author of textbooks in this area. Students
00:32:18praised her classes very much. We say the same about
00:32:21Maciej Berek, and we can move on to that in a moment. But
00:32:25please, what happened now, what happened
00:32:28now? We're talking about Minister Maciej Berek. For the first time in
00:32:32the history of the Constitutional Tribunal, and
00:32:35we already know it's 40 years old, right? It was
00:32:38established in 1982, started
00:32:41its work 4 years later, and for
00:32:45the first time in the history of this constitutional
00:32:48body, a constitutional minister was appointed to its
00:32:51composition.
00:32:55He resigned a few days earlier. Well, Ms. Krystyna
00:32:58Pawłowicz,
00:33:00was still reading
00:33:05to choose a constitutional
00:33:07minister.
00:33:15politics, Minister of
00:33:16Affairs,
00:33:21Professor, thank you very much, they were not
00:33:23politicians. Please, Good evening. I have
00:33:27a question for Professor Karski. Professor, what is
00:33:31more important today, repairing the tribunal or holding accountable those
00:33:35who caused this
00:33:36crisis?
00:33:39I think this way, I mean, you'll forgive me if I turn for a moment
00:33:43here, to address
00:33:45the question,
00:33:48I think the most important thing is
00:33:53track, that is, after this
00:33:56disaster, which Civic Platform caused in
00:33:592015, we should undertake
00:34:03actions that will lead to
00:34:06healing the tribunal. However, the actions
00:34:09currently being taken by the current government
00:34:13are not leading to this. They are deepening
00:34:16disputes, and the tribunal should be a body enjoying
00:34:20the trust of all Poles, it should also enjoy
00:34:23the trust of all of us as
00:34:27politicians, after all, it is the Sejm that elects the judges of the Constitutional
00:34:30Tribunal, and at the end there is Mr. President, so Mr.
00:34:33President, as we have already established, as we know,
00:34:37takes, takes an oath taken
00:34:41before him in a situation when it becomes current... he will choose
00:34:45elected a person who is even
00:34:52not called a judge, but a person to the office
00:34:54of judge,
00:34:57then he takes an oath from her and at that moment
00:35:01the employment relationship of a judge of the Constitutional
00:35:03Tribunal is established. This formula, based on Article
00:35:07197 of the Constitution, was adopted in the Act on
00:35:10the status of judges of the Constitutional
00:35:12Tribunal.
00:35:20December 3rd, thank you for these explanations. You saw, perhaps on
00:35:23the screen, a somewhat foreign object, this is the moment of extracting a Russian
00:35:26drone, or drone, that fell near Jarosławiec, this is the moment
00:35:30when Polish services got it. It flew across all of Poland,
00:35:33unnoticed, fell into the water, maybe it washed up on the shore, and then
00:35:37our brave services from
00:35:39PiS. There was also such a case, but that was a few years ago. But where did the professor get
00:35:43that?
00:35:51I wanted to ask you, Professor, don't you have the impression
00:35:55that it has gone to such a point that even
00:35:58if there is a spectacular
00:36:01change of power, and the tribunal is filled earlier,
00:36:04this new power will still not respect it? But that's
00:36:08why I say we need to reach an agreement. Mr. Member of Parliament Pejo talks about a constitutional
00:36:11reset, I talk about consensus in this area.
00:36:15That's what this reset is supposed to be about, meaning we're generally talking about
00:36:19the same thing at this moment, I just call it differently. Why didn't you
00:36:22accept the invitation to discuss the constitutional
00:36:24reset,
00:36:27which
00:37:04was in Afghanistan, who holds the rank
00:37:16of colonel, and he didn't sign that nomination? Tell me
00:37:19why? For the same reason that he won't take the oath of
00:37:23judges, because it's politically convenient for him, and this
00:37:26ambassador now... in bombed Kyiv represents the Majesty of the Republic of
00:37:30Poland, he can't get the signature of President
00:37:32Nawrocki.
00:37:37You removed, recalled from his position, Ambassador
00:37:40Cichocki, who in the first
00:37:42days of the full-scale attack on
00:37:46Ukraine, was the only member of the diplomatic corps
00:37:49who remained in Kyiv. Bombs were falling
00:37:53a brave man whom you
00:37:55recalled.
00:37:57ambassadors, and let's return, ladies and gentlemen, to the Constitutional Tribunal.
00:38:01The editor asks if
00:38:04it is possible
00:38:07to reach an agreement, if an agreement is possible. Throughout this program, Mr.
00:38:11Karski blamed the current
00:38:14government. In 2015, we elected two
00:38:18additional ones. What did you do? Judges in
00:38:212015, Minister Berek
00:38:242026.
00:38:37was a tool, we don't like the law, we vote against it, so what does the president
00:38:41do? Either he vetoes it, which doesn't pass because we don't have a
00:38:44majority, or he refers it to the Constitutional Tribunal,
00:38:48where such a composition is selected that it states, yes, it is inconsistent with
00:38:52the Constitution. And you don't need a tribunal for the same purpose, of course not,
00:38:56not you, Mr. Member of Parliament,
00:38:58no,
00:39:00but please, please let me finish, no, precisely, over these years
00:39:03we have developed such a conviction and we say
00:39:06your tribunal or our
00:39:08tribunal.
00:39:14what
00:39:14accompanies,
00:39:18you want to
00:39:18say,
00:39:23I sometimes try to introduce elementary order.
00:39:57The second is his character traits, which are to show
00:40:00that even if everything falls apart and burns, the judge will issue
00:40:04a ruling that he considers appropriate, not
00:40:07one that will change the composition of the adjudicating panel before issuing a verdict, being
00:40:11a several-decade-long associate of Donald Tusk. There is no
00:40:14doubt that the ruling of 3
00:40:16in 2026,
00:40:21in case of such a need, among hundreds of thousands of Poles, there will be a demonstration in
00:40:25defense of the tribunal. Because this will be another such political
00:40:29farce, one can say, and hundreds of thousands of Poles are not a
00:40:32political farce, or hundreds of thousands, we don't know that, of course. This is what Law and
00:40:36Justice is announcing. I don't think that, because Poles are also fed up with these
00:40:40demonstrations, but they are also fed up with such pushing and such political
00:40:43ping-pong that you are playing. Maybe Poles don't want this tribunal at all.
00:40:47Even, editor, one has to explain
00:40:51what politicians are really about, and that's precisely what it's about, to
00:40:54seize this Constitutional Tribunal, and I think that here there is a huge role for you... also for
00:40:58you, in the sense of the media, the so-called fourth power, for you to specifically
00:41:01criticize both sides, it's not about whether it's PiS or Platforma, but those
00:41:05who act this way with Poles, they just make
00:41:08people a dot at this point in the SMS court that you proposed.
00:41:1297% believe that the president should
00:41:15swear in all three, no, for that on platform x
00:41:1952,
00:41:21yes, 48 no. So in both cases
00:41:25the majority of those who chose to take
00:41:27part in this survey believe that the head of state should
00:41:31swear in everyone. The most important
00:41:34conclusion of this meeting: the president represents the nation. Thank you very much, everyone.
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