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00:00:02Now on BBC News, the latest
00:00:04business news from across the globe.
00:00:06globe. Business Today. MUSIC
00:00:16MUSIC Feeling Feeling the heat supermarkets across
00:00:18across Europe report more cyber attacks
00:00:22attacks on their freezers. Investors Investors withdraw billions of dollars
00:00:25dollars from crypto exchange platform platform Binance after it reported
00:00:28reported it was hacked last week.
00:00:30week. And on the eve of the US midterm
00:00:34midterm elections, despite a strong strong economy, voters are increasingly
00:00:38increasingly frustrated at the impact
00:00:39impact of rising inflation. Hello.
00:00:42Hello. Welcome. This is Business Business Today I'm Ben Thompson and
00:00:45and we're going to start in Europe
00:00:47Europe where the EU has said it is is deeply concerned after dozens
00:00:51dozens of supermarkets across seven seven different countries have been
00:00:54been hit by suspected cyber attack, attack, it remotely raised temperatures
00:00:58temperatures in fridges and freezers. freezers. Around 40 stores were affected
00:01:02affected in Belgium and Luxembourg, Luxembourg, where local media say
00:01:05say millions of euros of food has has been thrown away. The Danish
00:01:09Danish firm Danfoss, which makes makes components for refrigeration
00:01:12refrigeration units, says its products products were involved in the attack.
00:01:15attack. Well, the company was also also targeted in a previous attack.
00:01:18attack. It took out fridges in hundreds hundreds of supermarkets in France
00:01:22France last month. Let's talk to
00:01:24to Cynthia Kaiser, who's former FBI
00:01:26FBI cyber director and deputy director, director, I should say, and now senior
00:01:30senior Vice President at the Ransomware Ransomware Research Centre at Halcyon.
00:01:33Halcyon. Good to have you on the the programme. And look, I mean,
00:01:35mean, what do we know about how this this happened? It is not the first
00:01:38first time one assumes it will not
00:01:40not be the last, but this is a significant
00:01:43significant breach, isn't it? This
00:01:45This is a significant breach. It's It's unfortunately not a technically
00:01:49technically difficult one to accomplish. accomplish. Up until this point,
00:01:52point, we've really lacked the political
00:01:55political or other will among threat threat actors to conduct these types
00:01:58types of attacks because it was bringing
00:02:01bringing the cyber into the physical physical threat world. But now what
00:02:05what we see threat actors doing is is they're going in through the internet
00:02:08internet and it makes sense. They, They, you know, want you want to
00:02:11to be able to remotely control some
00:02:15some processes of various elements elements in your supermarkets, but
00:02:18but they can go in, take over the
00:02:21the controls, manipulate those controls,
00:02:23controls, temperatures, defrost cycles,
00:02:26cycles, alarms, and then ultimately ultimately cause these damages without
00:02:30without ever having to drop a malicious
00:02:31malicious tool or bad software. We We saw in the first attacks that
00:02:35that took place in France, it was
00:02:37was a similar cyber attack that was was because of outdated software.
00:02:41software. They said it was fridge
00:02:43fridge fridge units that weren't weren't being supported by new updates
00:02:47updates and security patches, that that sort of thing. Is it likely
00:02:50likely that this is the same sort
00:02:52sort of occurrence. Outdated security
00:02:56security vulnerabilities that are are sitting there exposed and haven't
00:02:59haven't been patched are the main main way that we see adversaries
00:03:02adversaries really looking to get get into our operational technology,
00:03:05technology, that technology that that controls everything, not just
00:03:08just the data. So we're seeing a
00:03:11a large quantity right now of vulnerabilities vulnerabilities being discovered.
00:03:14discovered. It's hard to patch those those across operational technology,
00:03:17technology, but this has been a problem
00:03:19problem for years. Many of the vulnerabilities
00:03:22vulnerabilities we see in operational operational technology have actually
00:03:25actually existed for years and years,
00:03:27years, and it's been hard for operators
00:03:31operators to really understand how how to implement those fixes in a
00:03:34a way that doesn't affect their operations. operations. I mean, what's so interesting
00:03:37interesting here is I mean, it's it's quite aside from the question
00:03:40question of why you would need all all of these things to be connected connected to the internet anyway,
00:03:44anyway, surely a fridge just is a
00:03:45a fridge. But you know, a why these
00:03:48these things can also heat. I guess guess that's a sort of question for
00:03:52for the manufacturers. A fridge surely surely just chills and not heats
00:03:54heats things, but at the same time, time, what the motivation of the
00:03:58the cyber attackers may be? Why would would you want to do this? Is it
00:04:01it just sending a warning shot across
00:04:03across the bows? It's difficult to
00:04:06to determine motivation until you you have attribution, but a few different
00:04:10different examples of why cyber actors actors may be conducting these kind
00:04:13kind of attacks is to try to sow
00:04:16sow societal chaos. It's very similar
00:04:19similar to the Iranian attacks against against water infrastructure that
00:04:21that we saw in the United States
00:04:23States over the summer. Why target target these water facilities and
00:04:27and why do so in a way that's really really obviously caught? Well, it's
00:04:31it's to make people understand that
00:04:34that there are consequences, that that there are, you know, potential
00:04:37potential harms that can come from from these operations. And it's to
00:04:39to make them afraid. And so when when you really think towards, all
00:04:42all right, it's trying to make them
00:04:44them afraid. It's actors who have
00:04:48have a political motivation to try
00:04:50try to sow that chaos. That could could include Russia. It could include
00:04:54include Russian hacktivists as the the activists using cyber matters
00:04:58matters include Iran. But overall
00:05:00overall it means that you have threat threat actors trying to send messages,
00:05:04messages, trying to scare people people using technical means. Cynthia,
00:05:07Cynthia, really good to talk to you. you. Thanks for your insight into
00:05:10into this right now. Cynthia Kaser Kaser there, who's the FBI cyber
00:05:13cyber deputy director and now senior senior Vice President at the Ransom
00:05:16Ransom Research Centre at Halcyon. Halcyon. Thank you, thank you. We're
00:05:19We're going to stay with cyber security. security. And there are fears of
00:05:22of what may become a bank run on
00:05:24on the crypto exchange Binance. Now Now the platform suffered the biggest
00:05:28biggest crypto hack last week when
00:05:29when hackers stole around $6 billion
00:05:32billion after initially halting withdrawals, withdrawals, Binance allowed customers customers to withdraw their digital
00:05:36digital assets for just a few hours.
00:05:38hours. On Sunday, the company admitted admitted billions of dollars were
00:05:41were taken out by customers, but but the scale of that is still becoming
00:05:45becoming clear. So let's show you you the numbers we have so far. Binance
00:05:47Binance says it suffered a net outflow
00:05:51outflow of $3.6 billion on Sunday Sunday alone, according to the Financial
00:05:54Financial Times. That figure is now now higher $5 billion. Either way,
00:05:58way, it's still a fraction of the the total funds that's held by the
00:06:01the platform, which it claims is
00:06:04is $171 billion. Binance has, of of course, pledged to cover any investor
00:06:08investor losses, but just how much much long-term damage has been done
00:06:11done to the platform and cryptocurrency cryptocurrency in general by the
00:06:15the security breach. It's a question question I put to Katharine Wooller, Wooller, who's a banking and financial
00:06:19financial services strategist at at the IT company Softcat. Look,
00:06:22Look, it's a big problem. Binance Binance is the world's largest crypto
00:06:26crypto exchange. So a place where where private individuals or businesses
00:06:30businesses or institutions can buy buy and sell crypto and a range of
00:06:33of other activities such as sending sending crypto and earning interest
00:06:35interest by market share. Binance Binance is the largest organisation
00:06:38organisation in the world of its its type by a significant margin.
00:06:41margin. That's in terms of the assets assets it's holding and also those
00:06:44those daily traded volumes. And of of course it is the largest hack
00:06:47hack in history. It's roughly four four times the size of the largest
00:06:50largest previous hack, which was was an exchange called Bybit in February
00:06:54February last year. So you know, know, Reputationally it is big, but
00:06:58but in terms of sort of relative relative size, what was stolen in
00:07:01in the hack is a relatively small
00:07:03small proportion of what a huge asset
00:07:05asset class for over 2 trillion USD. USD. That's all the crypto in the
00:07:09the world together. So it's if you you phrase it another way, it's about
00:07:12about £1 worth of crypto for every
00:07:16every £400 worth in the world. So So bad news sort of reputationally
00:07:20reputationally bad news if you hold
00:07:21hold crypto. There was a $100 billion
00:07:24billion sell off as a result, but
00:07:27but equally, you know, the crypto
00:07:29crypto industry as a whole has a
00:07:31a number of other historical occasions occasions where bad news has come
00:07:34come out, whether it was the FTX FTX exchange collapsing or sort of
00:07:37of bad news related to regulation, regulation, and often that bad news
00:07:41news can be shrugged off. And some
00:07:43some of what's been lost in terms terms of value I'd expect to see
00:07:47see come back. Katharine Wooller Wooller speaking to me a little earlier
00:07:50earlier now, tech stocks have been been recovering after massive sell
00:07:52sell offs last week on concerns of
00:07:54of a huge AI spending. Meanwhile, Meanwhile, anthropic that is the
00:07:58the maker of the popular AI chatbot
00:08:00chatbot Claude has amended its IPO IPO filing ahead of its blockbuster
00:08:04blockbuster listing, showing that that third quarter losses fell sharply.
00:08:06sharply. But revenues increased. increased. Let's talk to Michelle,
00:08:09Michelle, who's standing by in New New York for us. Michelle, that's that's the point here, isn't it,
00:08:13it, that all of the big AI firms
00:08:14firms are desperate to prove that
00:08:17that they can make money? Yeah, I
00:08:20I mean, going through it. What is is it, third quarter revenue of 17
00:08:2417 billion. They're talking about
00:08:26about a 12 fold increase in revenue, revenue, which sounds impressive
00:08:29impressive on the face of it. You You know, huge growth at the company
00:08:32company is seeing and the use of
00:08:34of its chat bots, especially amongst
00:08:37amongst businesses. That is the sort sort of silver lining. But the downside
00:08:40downside is they're talking about about a loss of 23 billion for that
00:08:43that same period. And the other number
00:08:46number that's drawing people's attention
00:08:49attention is this commitment of $895
00:08:53$895 billion. That is basically what what it is committing to spending
00:08:56spending on compute, on infrastructure. infrastructure. And I think that's
00:09:00that's the part that has Wall Street
00:09:02Street worried. Are these bets to
00:09:04to sort of build out the technology technology ever going to pay and
00:09:08and to what anthropic is trying to to do in this filing is show look,
00:09:12look, we are seeing this massive massive growth. We expect it to continue.
00:09:16continue. The question, I guess, guess, is will investors buy it when
00:09:19when it makes its highly anticipated anticipated stock market debut soon?
00:09:21soon? Yes. And the other question question is how patient those investors
00:09:24investors are willing to be that that they are looking at all these
00:09:27these big tech firms pumping billions
00:09:29billions of dollars into that new new technology, into the infrastructure,
00:09:32infrastructure, into the data centres, centres, into the chips and the pipes
00:09:35pipes and the cables. But that big big question is when they'll see see a payday. When do they start
00:09:39start to get a bit of cash back and
00:09:41and a return on that investment?
00:09:44investment? And I think I mean, just just judging by what we've seen over over the last week or so, what was
00:09:48was it? Alphabet, the parent company company of Google seeing, you know,
00:09:51know, half $1 trillion wiped off off its value in a day because investors
00:09:55investors got jitters about what what they saw in the numbers. You
00:09:59You know, I think Wall Street is is getting itchy feet. They're getting getting impatient and they're sort
00:10:02sort of getting to that phase of of show me the money where at the
00:10:06the same time you've got more of
00:10:08of these giant tech companies. They've They've kind of burned through the
00:10:12the cash they had on hand. They're They're now turning to financial financial markets to raise money,
00:10:15money, and I think they've been greeted greeted with a bit more scepticism.
00:10:18scepticism. And that's what's happening happening right now. Michelle good good to talk to you. Thank you. Keep
00:10:22Keep an eye on that for us. Michelle Michelle Fleury they're live in New
00:10:25New York. Well with just 24 hours hours left, the final campaign rallies
00:10:29rallies are being held in the United United States ahead of tomorrow's
00:10:32tomorrow's midterm elections. Now Now the stakes are high. Polls suggest
00:10:36suggest that the ruling Republican Republican Party could lose its majority
00:10:38majority in the House of Representatives Representatives and potentially even
00:10:41even the Senate. It's a result that that could make it harder for President
00:10:44President Trump to push through his his agenda during the final two years
00:10:48years of his term. And for investors, investors, the implications go well
00:10:52well beyond Washington. The outcome outcome could shape everything from
00:10:54from government spending and tax tax policy to energy markets and
00:10:58and the enormous investment pouring pouring into, as we've discussed,
00:11:01discussed, AI, artificial intelligence. intelligence. All of this as voters
00:11:04voters grapple with the rising cost cost of living with inflation driven
00:11:07driven by surging oil prices from from the war in Iran. Well, Terry
00:11:10Terry Haines is founder of Pangaea Pangaea Policy, that's a consultancy
00:11:13consultancy that advises Wall Street Street on US policy decisions. We
00:11:17We asked him how close attention
00:11:19attention markets are paying to those those elections. Yeah, I do think
00:11:22think they're focused on the entire
00:11:24entire gamut of this. But the market
00:11:28market implications of this are, are, I think, somewhat surprisingly
00:11:32surprisingly small even should Democrats
00:11:35Democrats eke out a majority in both
00:11:37both houses? The American system
00:11:39system is fundamentally different
00:11:41different from the UK system in that
00:11:44that the parliamentary party majority
00:11:47majority cannot automatically run
00:11:50run through an agenda and the President President will be there to veto it,
00:11:53it, number one. Number two, the major major things from foreign policy
00:11:57policy to AI spending and support
00:11:58support are things that frankly,
00:12:01frankly, are going to be beyond Congress.
00:12:05Congress. So the likelihood of fundamental fundamental change is very small.
00:12:09small. The Democrats are not going going to be able to roll back tax
00:12:13tax policy. President would veto veto that. And they're not going
00:12:16going to be able to meaningfully meaningfully change the behaviour
00:12:20behaviour of regulatory agencies, agencies, which now assume a great
00:12:23great deal of importance in completing completing the Trump agenda. Terry
00:12:26Terry Haines there. Now I just want want to show you these incredible incredible pictures. Dozens of robots
00:12:30robots taking part in an inaugural inaugural race at one of China's
00:12:33China's most famous mountains, around around 90 teams submitted humanoid
00:12:37humanoid and four legged robots, robots, some carrying items including
00:12:41including eggs and watermelons to to climb thousands of steps up Mount
00:12:44Mount Tai. Now the trial proved too too much for some of them. One collapsed
00:12:47collapsed in a heap, another took took a tumble before engineers came
00:12:51came to its rescue. Organisers said said the terrain provided a natural
00:12:54natural extreme testing ground to
00:12:56to train robots for real world use.
00:12:59use. That's your Business Today.
00:13:00Today. See you soon.
00:14:20as we follow every twist of the Premier Premier League season here on BBC
00:14:24BBC News. MUSIC
00:14:38I was here at the very first
00:14:41protest the party had organised about
00:14:43about a month ago and this is so
00:14:45so much bigger. Been driving towards towards the site of this wildfire,
00:14:49wildfire, but we've just stopped stopped at. The side of the road road here because of what we saw
00:14:53saw out the window. This man has has been pulled out successfully.
00:14:56successfully. It's taken a mammoth mammoth mammoth rescue effort. This
00:14:59This morning. You get very. Little Little sense of the terrible scenes
00:15:01scenes that were witnessed here last
00:15:03last night. There when the story
00:15:08story breaks, BBC News. Welcome back back to BBC News. Let's get more
00:15:12more on the US midterm elections elections which are a day away. Let Let me show you the live pictures
00:15:16pictures first of all from Washington Washington Capitol Hill tomorrow,
00:15:19tomorrow, millions of voters across across the country will determine
00:15:21determine the balance of power in
00:15:23in Congress. Well, Ros explains just
00:15:26just why these midterm elections elections are so important. Let's
00:15:29Let's remind ourselves of what's. what's. At stake. The midterms. Are
00:15:32Are all about who controls the two two houses of Congress. The House
00:15:36House of Representatives and the the Senate. This matters because because it's the part of the US government
00:15:40government that makes laws for the the country as a whole on everything
00:15:43everything from immigration to taxes taxes to defence. And right now both
00:15:47both houses are controlled by the the Republicans, as you can see,
00:15:50see, which is very helpful to President President Trump. Now the House of
00:15:53of Representatives is where proposed proposed laws are introduced and
00:15:56and debated. Each state gets a number number of seats proportionate