Google Speech-to-Text API Automatic Transcription (Chirp). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:39of و
00:00:40of حالا در تلویزیون فارسی بی بی سی
00:00:43مستند.
00:00:51of I have experienced a fair amount
00:00:53of the danger of Israel. I've been there when bombs have
00:00:57gone off, I've been there when a wedding was blown up, I've been there.
00:01:01uh in the aftermath of a bus explosion, and I've
00:01:03على seen some really ugly things. I've
00:01:07never ever seen
00:01:09هذا a rampage as
00:01:12brutal and
00:01:13horrendous.
00:01:17October 7th has defined a new
00:01:21set of traumatic hurdles that have to be
00:01:25overcome in order to find a way
00:01:26forward. Seventh
00:01:30attacks and the devastating war they sparked in Gaza have
00:01:34brutally reopened scars from decades of
00:01:36conflict. The Bible says that there is a
00:01:40time for peace and a time for war. This is a time
00:01:44for war. In this episode, Donald Trump in his first term
00:01:48as president, tries to make peace his way. He wanted President
00:01:52Abbas to be in the crime scene,
00:01:55of both as victim and a witness. I had to ask, what do we do
00:01:59about Gaza? the answer that I got, sh,
00:02:02don't talk about Gaza or Hamas, the
00:02:06whole Middle East changes and Netanyahu presents his new
00:02:10Middle East, eraser of Palestine, eraser
00:02:13of the Palestinian people, then the 7th
00:02:17of October, believe me,
00:02:20of if I was 20 years younger, I would have picked up an M16 and gone down to
00:02:23Gaza
00:02:24myself.
00:02:43مع In July
00:02:462014, Israel launched a major aerial bombardment of
00:02:50Gaza after series of Hamas
00:02:52لا rocket
00:02:53attacks.
00:02:57Then they discovered her mass
00:02:59of militants entering.
00:03:00of
00:03:05of
00:03:31With of the threat of another war ever present,
00:03:34من Hamas decided it was time to try a bit of
00:03:37diplomacy. I got messages
00:03:41back through various people that Hamas wanted to write
00:03:43me a
00:03:44في letter and set out um,
00:03:48potentially a change of position for them. Uh, I was in
00:03:52favor of encouraging that, and
00:03:54في whereas لا I understood the narrative from the
00:03:56of Israeli side very well, it was important to hear from all sides of
00:04:00Palestinian politics, to me, you get to the stage where you
00:04:03need to actually sit with the people and look them in the
00:04:06لا face and have that conversation direct with them.
00:04:10former prime minister Tony Blair was the
00:04:12من representative
00:04:12of the quartet, a group set up by the UN,
00:04:16EU, America and Russia to
00:04:19of mediate Middle East peace
00:04:20في talks. He traveled to
00:04:24Qatar to meet the head of Hamas Khalid
00:04:26Michel.
00:04:28لا I said to Khalid Michel.
00:04:30you got
00:04:30to stop activity that's going to give the Israelies the sense that you're
00:04:34still utterly hostile to them, so the building
00:04:37of the tunnels is hard to see what the purpose of that is, unless it's to be
00:04:41used for something that's aimed at the Israelis. حق المقاومه
00:04:44لماذا قال لانه انفاق من داخل غزه
00:04:47الى الى ارض اسرائيل
00:04:50of قلت له اولا هي ارضنا فلسطين لماذا يطلب من
00:04:54حماس ان تتخلى عن الانفاق وهي وحده هو
00:04:58متقدم علينا عسكريا. انا مطلوب من حماس تتخلى عن
00:05:02سلاحها وعن الانفاق طيب واسرائيل هل
00:05:07of في المقابل اسرائيل مستعده ان تتخلى عن سلاحها الجوي
00:05:11of مثلا but if you want to get to different place,
00:05:15you've at least got to state a broad
00:05:19outline of your position that allows us to
00:05:23say, well, you should be part of this negotiation, because you're now prepared to
00:05:26accept what we're negotiating
00:05:29for.
00:05:36less than year later, the Israeli military uncovered a new
00:05:40tunnel, more than 40 meters deep. going under the Gaza
00:05:43border into Israeli territory, people
00:05:47became really, really obsessed with the tunnels and
00:05:50there was a lot of thought around how to neutralize the tunnels. there was
00:05:5414 cabinet meetings about the tunnels, i know because i
00:05:57prepared those paper, 14 meetings that the
00:06:01cabinet talked about the problem the
00:06:04tunnels. ישראל תמשיך לפעול ככל
00:06:08שידרש לגילוי ולסיכול אייום המנהרות
00:06:11בדרום.
00:06:12everybody
00:06:34were
00:06:35very enthusiastic about it, i was
00:06:38exception, they said this is this is not a
00:06:42main problem is Gaza, the main threat is a massive
00:06:46eruption, massive gorilla campaign from
00:06:49Gaza into Israel, and they don't need the tunnels for this. You've all
00:06:53definitely highlighted if we invest, if we
00:06:57overinvest in detect in technology that helps us detect things
00:07:00underground, they're just going to come above the
00:07:04ground, but the vast majority the
00:07:07security establishment viewed the tunnels as the
00:07:11enemy, and that's what... The security cabinet
00:07:13approved. The barrier
00:07:17would take four years to be built. The government cut the
00:07:21budgets of health, education and even security to fund
00:07:24it.
00:07:36The Israelis had even more reason to feel that their security was well looked
00:07:39after. They had new ally. the new
00:07:43American president, one whom the Israeli prime minister counted as
00:07:47family
00:07:47friend.
00:07:53Donald Trump came to office promising that he would quickly succeed
00:07:57where his predecessors had
00:07:59failed. So
00:08:02President Trump is deal junky, right? I worked for him for 20 years,
00:08:06I've never seen anybody like him. He's always heard in his life
00:08:10that the Israeli Palestinian conflict. the sort the holy grail if you will of
00:08:14deals, although many people cautioned him it was not
00:08:18achievable, he didn't want to hear it, he wanted to try to do it
00:08:21his
00:08:22way,
00:08:26so I'm looking at two state and one state and I
00:08:29like the one that both parties like, I'm very happy
00:08:33with the one that both parties like, Trump was unexpected, no one
00:08:37thought you will talk about two state, one state, let's let's
00:08:41solve it, let's let's do business, this is always,
00:08:45let's do business, why to go to bother with all the details?
00:08:49that's president Trump's way of saying, let's figure it out, whatever
00:08:53it's going to be, the parties have to do it, they have to do it
00:08:56together.
00:09:01if Trump was to get his deal, he'd have to convince Mahmoud
00:09:05Abbas, the man recognized by the international community
00:09:09as the president of all Palestinians.
00:09:14President Trump really made sure to make President Abbas
00:09:18feel welcomed, usually president stop few meters away until a
00:09:22marine comes and opens, no president Trump charged
00:09:25towards President Abbas, I was still sitting in the car, so
00:09:29I was looking at the face and the the body language of President
00:09:33Trump and I could see how much he was trying to
00:09:36welcome extraordinary way, welcome President
00:09:39Abbas, we're going to have lunch, we're going... to have discussions and
00:09:43hopefully something terrific can come out between the
00:09:47Palestinians and Israel. Thank you for being here. Thank
00:09:51you. President Abbas played his part very, very well. He was warm, he
00:09:55was friendly. President Trump I think almost viewed him as a
00:09:58statesman, a grandfather figure almost. President
00:10:02Abbas presented our logic, our
00:10:06vision, which is two states, a state of Palestine, a state of Israel
00:10:10that is secured with good neighbor. relationship with
00:10:13its neighbors, and I remember President Abbas, he showed President
00:10:17Trump all the countries that would recognize Israel, and after all that
00:10:21discussion, he invited the two delegations to lunch.
00:10:25of what and he looks at us, guys,
00:10:28guys, you have a great president, you have a great
00:10:32president, you have a
00:10:36great president, i could not believe
00:10:37what i heard from him, i think you gna make peace, i think things will be
00:10:40okay, chief negotiator
00:10:44had accompanied palestinian presidents to the white house for more than
00:10:48two decades, this is the last
00:10:52interview he gave, he was in poor. and
00:10:56died only weeks later, he said, i
00:10:59will give you year with the israelis, i
00:11:03will not do anything that may preempt or prejudge issues for per
00:11:07negotiation, but after year i will see the side that's putting
00:11:10obstacles and
00:11:12then i will take action, he was paying so much money
00:11:15to this region and i'm not going to pay those who are obstructing
00:11:19the peace
00:11:19process,
00:11:25فخامه الرئيس بانكم قادرون
00:11:28النجاح لان لديكم الاراده
00:11:32والرغبه في
00:11:34النجاح.
00:11:41To deliver his deal, Trump set up a small team in the white
00:11:44house headed by his son-in-law, Jared
00:11:47Krishna. Shard's view very much
00:11:51was go study this, what are the issues? What have been the parties?
00:11:55positions over the years, I'm learning from
00:11:58everybody, state department, national security council, think tanks,
00:12:02it wasn't that long before I had to ask the important question, which is, okay, let's
00:12:06just say we get BB Netanyahu and Mahmed Abbas and
00:12:10Donald Trump in the room, and they all agree, what do we do
00:12:14about Gaza, the two million Palestinians living in Gaza who are
00:12:18subjugated by Hamas, what do we do about Hamas? The answer that I
00:12:22got, don't... don't talk about
00:12:26Gaza or Hamas, let's just figure out the two-state
00:12:29solution and then we'll figure out
00:12:31Gaza.
00:12:37Hamas hoped the new American president would change
00:12:39things. No US
00:12:42administration had ever agreed to talk to the group which had called for the
00:12:46destruction of Israel and the creation of an Islamic Palestinian
00:12:50state.
00:12:55ترامب قد لا يتحكم
00:12:59في طريقه عمله السياسي هو عنده مفاجات
00:13:03قد يكون عنده جراه اكثر من غيره فقد يقدم على
00:13:07خطوه تنسجم المنطق مع منطق
00:13:09الصراع.
00:13:19Qatar arranged a press conference to announce it had rewritten its
00:13:23founding charter. The original
00:13:27document had been widely condemned for using anti-semitic
00:13:30language.
00:13:43The press conference was broadcast live into Gaza where Hamas's
00:13:47top brass had gathered. The new local
00:13:50leader, Yahya Sinwa, brought his son to
00:13:53watch. حماس منفتحه
00:13:57وستتعاون وهي جزء الحل وليس
00:14:00جزءا من المشكله نحن كحركه حماس
00:14:04نحن لا نعادي اليهود
00:14:07لانهم يهود نحن نعادي
00:14:11المحتلين الذين احتلوا ارضنا وشردوا
00:14:15شعبنا حماس تمانع من قيام دوله
00:14:17فلسطينيه الضفت الغربيه وقطاع
00:14:21غزه على كامل حدود عام 67.
00:14:25"the 1967 borders was diplomatic shorthand for
00:14:29two-state solution. It could imply that Hamas was ready to
00:14:33move in this direction, but the document made clear that
00:14:37they were still committed to armed resistance and would not recognize
00:14:41اسرائيل. طبعا رد
00:14:44الفعل الاول كان من قبل الاحتلال فيما اذكر واللي عبر
00:14:48عن يعني رفضه واستياءه لهذا المؤتمر
00:14:52وانه هذه الوثيقه تغير شيئا. "there is not
00:14:55a distinguish between the military wing and
00:14:59the political wing. there is moderate and not moderate in
00:15:03terrorist organization, and they can speak very nice in the
00:15:07tv and things like that, but basically at night they preparing missils to
00:15:11penetrate
00:15:11Israel.
00:15:20trump ignored the hamas relaunch, he remained intent
00:15:24a..." peace deal between Netanyahu and Abbas and decided that
00:15:28his first foreign trip would be to the Middle
00:15:30East.
00:15:37Only hours after his arrival in Israel, Trump visited one the most
00:15:41sacred sites for Jews in occupied East Jerusalem, which
00:15:45Palestinians claimed as their capital a future
00:15:48state. The western wall
00:15:51was very controversial place. You now, there had never been a
00:15:55sitting president who had visited the western
00:15:58wall. The visit had been arranged by the new
00:16:02US ambassador, David Friedman, Trump's lawyer and personal
00:16:05friend. was also a fervent supporter of Israel
00:16:09and believe that all of Jerusalem should be his capital. we
00:16:13insisted, they said, look, this war, this is the story the Jewish people, and it's the
00:16:17story of Israel. if he's going to go anywhere, he's going to go to the western
00:16:20wall.
00:16:26president Trump understood that something like that
00:16:30visual can communicate more than any speech could possibly
00:16:34give, that this is a president who is committed. uh to Israel
00:16:38and doing something important for the
00:16:39country. The Palestinian
00:16:43government wasn't unduly worried. They believed
00:16:47Trump had promised that the status of Jerusalem would only be settled
00:16:51in the deal they were
00:16:52negotiating.
00:16:57Six months later, this would be put to the test. During
00:17:01President Clinton's presidency, the Congress passed a law
00:17:05requiring the president. to move the American
00:17:08embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, but they
00:17:12also allowed every president to sign
00:17:16waver that would allow him not to move
00:17:20it, and every president since President Clinton signed the
00:17:23waver. On the campaign trail, Trump
00:17:27had promised to change this and recognize Jerusalem as the capital of
00:17:31Israel. With the deadline to sign the
00:17:34waver coming up, David Friedmann was deter. to make the president
00:17:38keep his promise, to me, moving the embassy was
00:17:42the most important thing, there are a lot of people in the uh state
00:17:46department and the defense department who were against it, so chief of
00:17:50staff said
00:17:50to me, look, if you want this done, you better stick around, because no one else is going
00:17:54to fight for this the way you will. less than a week before
00:17:58the deadline, trump called a meeting in the white house situation
00:18:01room. i'll tell you candy, was a little bit
00:18:05nervous because i am making a case
00:18:09that is um rife with national security issues. there were
00:18:13number of warnings that there would be uprisings and
00:18:17capitals all over uh the Arab world and
00:18:20that it could also lead to our embassies uh
00:18:24being stormed and diplomats being taken hostage. and
00:18:28the president said to me, David, how do you read the
00:18:31situation? and I said to him, Mr. President, why wouldn't you keep
00:18:35this promise because the threats? of who? the Palestinians,
00:18:39Islamic Jihad? And I said the whole world is watching. All the
00:18:43countries that are trying to size you up to see do you
00:18:46have the courage of your convictions, they're going to see that you do
00:18:50because of this move. President Trump of course felt the need to let President
00:18:54Abbas know why he was moving the embassy and how it wasn't going in
00:18:58his mind to stop our efforts to try to achieve
00:19:01peace. So they got President Abbas on the phone. He
00:19:05told him it's it's gonna happen, but It's not going to affect your
00:19:08position, it's not going to affect your rights, it's not going to affect anything. I said,
00:19:12how, if you gonna recognize Jerusalem
00:19:15capital, how it's not gonna affect this is a preempting, I have an
00:19:19agreement with you, you told me that you will not take any action, Mr.
00:19:22President, President Abbas told President Trump, you you
00:19:26promised us not to do it, and if you do it, I
00:19:30cannot, but disengage. We were all listening in on different extensions, I
00:19:34think I was in the national security advisor's office, but the line went dead. and
00:19:37it it seems there were issues with the line and our president was not really interested
00:19:41to hear all the you know, wait with me, I'm going to give you
00:19:45much more than what I gave Israel, and I remember hearing President Trump saying, hello,
00:19:49Mahmoud, hello, and nothing, but I remember
00:19:53thinking, did President Abbas hang up on the President the United
00:19:57States? President Abbas
00:20:01immediately instructed us not to have any contact with the
00:20:04US administration until further.
00:20:07instruction
00:20:19after the president announced that we are moving the embassy to
00:20:22Jerusalem, Arab leaders around the
00:20:25region had prepared for the worst, but
00:20:29then in fact nothing happened, there were no uprisings
00:20:33or chaos or violence or bloodshed,
00:20:36and That was an indication to us that new
00:20:40Middle East was coming into existence, and it was a Middle East that
00:20:44was tired the old conflict between Arab Nations and
00:20:48Israel.
00:21:21For weeks, Palestinians had been demonstrating in what they called the Great
00:21:25March of Return. This was to remind the
00:21:29world that millions their people had been made refugees through decades
00:21:33of conflict. They were also protesting against
00:21:37Israel's bloccade of Gaza that was suffocating its
00:21:39economy. The
00:21:43humanitarian crisis was compounded by the Palestinian authority,
00:21:47restricting the money it supplied for salaries and election.
00:22:08غزه مليون تخصيص دولار
00:22:08الى منحه
00:22:10شهري. تصل قطريه 20 شهريه
00:22:11الى قطاع
00:23:32وهو كمان اسهل
00:23:35عليه في اقناع
00:23:37العالم انه ابو
00:23:40مازن يستطيع ان يكون شريك
00:23:44له لانه في انقسام
00:23:47سياسي.
00:23:54With the help the money coming in from Qatar, Hamas was building his
00:23:58popularity with the people of
00:23:59Gaza, and they were getting support
00:24:03on the military front from another very powerful
00:24:06ally.
00:24:11The supreme leader of Iran, Ayatollah Kamani,
00:24:15invited top-level delegation of Hamas to
00:24:18Tehran. اللقاء
00:24:22يعطي اشاره واضحه على متانه العلاقه ما
00:24:25بيننا وبين الجمهوريه الاسلاميه
00:24:28الايررانيه حينما
00:24:31تحدثنا عن حاجتنا الى امر محدد المقاومه في قطاع
00:24:35غزه يعني غير متوفر لنا وهو يشكل بعدا
00:24:39نوعيا في مواجهه قوات الاحتلال
00:24:43وكان يحضرها ايضا قاسم سليماني رحمه
00:24:46الله
00:25:21In the years ahead, when Hamas needed military support, its leaders knew
00:25:25they could count on
00:25:26Teran.
00:25:30لذلك دائما هذه الزيارات تكون ناجحه
00:25:33وذات نتائج ملموسه
00:25:36ومتقدمه
00:25:37ومباشره.
00:25:46It had been three years since Trump had promised a peace deal. between the
00:25:50Palestinians and
00:25:51Israel.
00:25:54Now, with America entering an election year, the president
00:25:58decided to announce what he called the deal the century.
00:26:06'a top Israeli delegation flew in, but there were no
00:26:10Palestinians insight. Today Israel takes a
00:26:14big step towards
00:26:16peace.
00:26:21My vision presents a win-win opportunity for both
00:26:25sides, realistic two-state solution that
00:26:28resolves the risk of Palestinian statehood.'
00:26:33to Israel's security. Israel is light
00:26:36onto the world. the document claimed the Palestinians would be
00:26:40able to achieve an independent state, but only under stringent
00:26:44conditions. it confirmed that Jerusalem would remain
00:26:48Israel's undivided capital. they want peace and they want peace
00:26:51badly. it also talked about bringing major international investment
00:26:55into the west bank and
00:26:56gaza.
00:27:01i want on television as did the rest of my
00:27:05colleagues, and it unfolded, I think
00:27:09exactly as we anticipated that
00:27:13it was the American president delivering to
00:27:16the Israeli prime minister. I saw Netanyahu in every word and
00:27:20every letter, I was just seeing Netanyahu's face popping out, peace
00:27:24for peace, economic peace, there was nothing in it about
00:27:28rights, not once, nothing, Israel shall have...
00:27:32have an overall security control over the entire
00:27:36territory of Historic Palestine from the river to the
00:27:39sea in exchange, we will just give
00:27:42Palestinians some cash, that's that's his his his
00:27:46logic, and therefore our
00:27:50main assessment and decision was
00:27:53just to reject it out
00:27:55right, was an advisor on the Trump peace
00:27:59plan, as a plan that um had
00:28:03the probably the best success, best chances of success that
00:28:07I'd seen. By the way, it was the only peace
00:28:11plan in which Israel accepted the idea of territorial
00:28:15swaps. swapping territory was key part of Trump's
00:28:19plan. Israel would get 30% the west
00:28:22bank, in exchange, the Palestinians would receive a
00:28:26comparable amount of land in the Israeli desert far from the west
00:28:30bank.
00:28:31the human
00:28:31soul and the human spirit.
00:29:04Israel will apply its laws to the Jordan Valley, to all the Jewish
00:29:08communities in Judea and Samaria, and to other areas
00:29:12that your plan designates as part of Israel, and which the United
00:29:16States has agreed to recognize as part of
00:29:19Israel.
00:29:25I like that. President Trump was
00:29:29surprised with the substance, and by the
00:29:33tone the speech, which was far more about
00:29:36um, the sovereignty than about peace. this decision will protect Israel's
00:29:40security, ensure Israel's national interests, if Israel
00:29:44annex land without negotiating, it could kill off any
00:29:48possibility of two-state
00:29:49solution. president
00:29:53abbas needed his allies to stand with him
00:29:55publicly. he requested emergency meeting
00:29:59the arab league.
00:30:07ان هذه السيناريوهات تجلب استقرارا او تقيم
00:30:11سلاما بل تضع بذور 100 عام اخرى
00:30:15الصراع والمعاناه هي
00:30:19فلسطين هي بال 47 هي
00:30:23ال 48 هي
00:30:26هي
00:30:27اللي هي 22% مع
00:30:30غزه.
00:30:42Netanyahu's plans for the west bank would you to take effect at the start of
00:30:46July?
00:30:50Only few days before the deadline, the ambassador of one the Gulf's most
00:30:54important states made an unexpected
00:30:56move towards the
00:31:00very end of June Yusuf.