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00:00:00and
00:00:00the world.
00:00:08Stay with us for the latest developments
00:00:10in the
00:00:14World Cup. Stay with
00:00:17us.
00:00:21This is London, BBC Radio. It's 8 PM Tehran time. Top
00:00:24news: Whispers and concerns about another
00:00:28widespread war in Tehran. Iran has announced its readiness to open
00:00:31the Strait of Hormuz within 48 hours. Mohsen Rezaei has
00:00:35spoken with Putin. Beijing says it supports Iran's right to
00:00:38defend itself. Meanwhile, a wave of criticism has erupted over the attack on
00:00:42a Qatari gas tanker in the Persian Gulf. The Revolutionary Guard
00:00:45claims to have targeted 11 vessels in 9 days.
00:00:48Stay with us in this program. The World Cup. We ask: Can China and Russia
00:00:52change the equations? What factors
00:00:56play a role in America and Israel's decision to confront Iran?
00:01:00Controversy in Michigan, USA. One day before the midterm
00:01:04elections, a Democratic representative has endorsed the Republican candidate
00:01:07instead of the Arab-American nominee of her own party. All in the next
00:01:11half hour.
00:01:12You
00:01:19are listening to BBC Radio. Good evening wherever you are in the world. I am Nasser Madani,
00:01:23and you are listening to the World Cup program
00:01:26on Monday, November 11, 1405. The Iranian
00:01:30Foreign Minister said that as a result of ongoing talks
00:01:33with Qatari mediators, Iran's proposed seven-day plan has now
00:01:37been reduced to two days, so that if America meets Iran's conditions
00:01:40on the first day, the Strait of Hormuz will be opened
00:01:44on the second day. Abbas Aragchi, look,
00:01:48given the sensitivity of the current situation and the critical nature of affairs,
00:01:52well, consultations have become very intense now. Negotiations are taking place
00:01:55very closely. Both Qatar and Pakistan are playing a very
00:01:59active role as mediators in these
00:02:02negotiations. We have said many times that just as we are fully prepared
00:02:05to defend ourselves, we are also prepared to engage
00:02:09in diplomacy and find a negotiated solution.
00:02:12That was the Iranian Foreign Minister. Baran Abbasi is here in the studio
00:02:16with us. Baran, tell us about the negotiations. Nasser,
00:02:19what we know now is that, according to Reuters, Iranian
00:02:23negotiators have currently left and are
00:02:26waiting for America's response to what
00:02:34happened. But what we saw in the past few days was that from Friday,
00:02:38negotiations with
00:02:41Qatar's mediation began. First, a Qatari delegation came
00:02:44to Tehran, then Iranian diplomats went to Doha.
00:02:47What Iran has said is that
00:02:51it had previously offered a seven-point proposal to open the Strait of Hormuz within 7 days.
00:02:55Now it has compressed this, saying it is willing to do
00:02:58this within two days, provided that
00:03:01America fulfills its conditions. That is, it has said that this will
00:03:05not be without conditions. The conditions that Iran had previously set were
00:03:08seven conditions, and the most important of them was that
00:03:12the naval blockade should end, sanctions relief
00:03:16for Iran, an end to the war on all fronts, and the release
00:03:19of Iran's blocked assets. Iran has emphasized that first,
00:03:23these conditions must be met, and then the Strait
00:03:26of Hormuz will be opened. This
00:03:30began after Jay Diddy, the US Vice President, wrote a letter to
00:03:33Mohsen Rezaei, the Secretary of Iran's Supreme National Security Council. Today,
00:03:37the Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesperson said that this letter had no initiative.
00:03:41However, we have heard other things. Mohsen Rezaei himself said that
00:03:44this was a positive step,
00:03:48and American officials also said that the proposal by Jay Diddy
00:03:51was to resume negotiations and that the nuclear
00:03:55program should also be among the issues discussed. In return,
00:03:58part of Iran's blocked assets should be released so that Iran can purchase
00:04:02humanitarian aid such as food.
00:04:05Iran, on the other hand, has said that it will not
00:04:09discuss the nuclear issue until its conditions are met.
00:04:13Therefore, there is still a large gap
00:04:16between the two sides. But in any case, as you
00:04:20also mentioned, Abbas Araqchi said that the two sides are still
00:04:24exchanging messages intensively. Reuters says that
00:04:28a proposal, a list, a proposal,
00:04:31is currently being circulated to see if an agreement
00:04:35can be reached or not.
00:04:37At the same time, this talk of negotiations and reaching an
00:04:41agreement based on this draft, as you said, with the targeting of several
00:04:45other commercial ships in the Persian Gulf, one of these
00:04:48vessels was apparently carrying Qatari gas, right?
00:04:52According to Iran, the attack continued,
00:04:55and this incident involving the Qatari natural
00:04:58gas ship happened a few days ago. But
00:05:02reactions to it are still ongoing, and
00:05:06the condemnation of this event
00:05:09by Qatar's supporters and allies.
00:05:13Qatar itself has not directly blamed Iran for this attack,
00:05:16but it has condemned the attack, saying
00:05:20it poses a serious threat to maritime safety and
00:05:23global energy supply. It has said it will investigate
00:05:27who was responsible for this incident.
00:05:31But we should note that the attack happened when Qatari
00:05:34and Iranian delegations were negotiating,
00:05:37and
00:05:39allies
00:05:42in Qatar condemned it. Well, Iran had previously said that
00:05:46if ships pass through a route that Iran
00:05:49describes as an illegal route, which is near
00:05:52Oman, they might encounter mines,
00:05:56or that the Iranian armed forces
00:05:59themselves
00:06:01have been accused of targeting these ships.
00:06:05The thing is, we don't know exactly what happened to this ship. Iran
00:06:09has not accepted responsibility, and Qatar has not directly condemned Iran.
00:06:13But the incident involving this Qatari gas ship
00:06:16is very important in such circumstances.
00:06:19All this is happening while the concern about another
00:06:22widespread war cannot really be ignored.
00:06:26Everyone is openly expressing concern about it. Iran has also
00:06:30issued serious warnings about responding to a possible US attack.
00:06:34That's right. Last night, we heard from Donald Trump again
00:06:37that he said he had been lenient with Iran until now,
00:06:41and that he might be forced at some point
00:06:44to deal a heavy blow to Iran.
00:06:47The day before, he had said that
00:06:51negotiations are good. On the other hand, he again mentioned Kuh-e Kalang, which is a nuclear
00:06:55center in central Iran, near Natanz, and said
00:06:58that one or two targets are among those
00:07:02whose fate must be decided. Channel 12 of Israel reported that
00:07:05Benjamin Netanyahu spoke with Donald Trump and demanded that
00:07:09Iran be attacked immediately after tomorrow's elections.
00:07:12Donald Trump, according to this report, said
00:07:15that he wants to give negotiations more time.
00:07:19And according to what Israeli sources told the Axios website,
00:07:22this phone conversation was tense. On the other hand,
00:07:26American sources reported that the conversation was frank and candid.
00:07:29Iran is also again issuing its warnings,
00:07:32and this has continued throughout this period. A message attributed
00:07:36to Mojtaba Khamenei has been published by Iranian media outlets, stating that
00:07:40Iran's response must be immediate and without geographical limitations. And we are
00:07:43now hearing this from other Iranian officials, including Manouchehr
00:07:47Mottaki, who was previously the foreign minister and is now
00:07:50a member of parliament, and who said that Europe could be
00:07:54one of Iran's targets, and in relation
00:07:57to the fact that Iran's response will have no geographical
00:08:01limitations, diplomatic reactions and
00:08:04moves have also become more widespread. China is now
00:08:07playing a more prominent role, as is Russia. China
00:08:11has said that it has appointed a special envoy who will travel
00:08:14to Iran, Oman, and Saudi Arabia
00:08:18this month, November. Today, the Chinese Foreign Minister met
00:08:22with Ali Bagheri Kani, the Deputy Secretary of the Supreme National Security Council.
00:08:26On the other hand, Xi Jinping met with the Sultan
00:08:29of Oman in Beijing. The Sultan of Oman asked him to play
00:08:33a greater role in the Middle East issue.
00:08:36Also, Mohsen Rezaei met with Vladimir Putin. Russia had previously
00:08:40said that it is willing to play a role.
00:08:53They hope there won't be a war. The price of oil fell by 6% today due to these
00:08:57hopes. It was 4 at the beginning of the day, then it increased
00:09:01to about $16 per barrel. Brent crude was traded.
00:09:04But Reuters, quoting several Iranian officials and its own sources,
00:09:08said that Iranians expect
00:09:11the probability of war to be higher than that of an agreement.
00:09:15Thank you, Baran. Baran Abbasi, senior reporter for
00:09:18BBC Persian Television, who was with us on the radio today.
00:09:21With the details of the latest
00:09:24news, in the conversation with Baran, Qatar's role and
00:09:28its mediation in these negotiations were mentioned.
00:09:31Nafiseh Kouhnavard, our senior correspondent for Middle East affairs, talks about Qatar's
00:09:35efforts for negotiations between Iran and the US, and what will happen
00:09:38if these negotiations don't succeed and Qatar's role is not prominent,
00:09:42and if it is diminished and disappears.
00:09:46Here, the discussion is about Qatar's weight. There is such
00:09:49an image of Qatar that its capabilities
00:09:53are superior to other mediators in the region,
00:09:56whether it's Pakistan or Oman. What I hear from diplomatic sources,
00:09:59well, Oman also has some weight, but
00:10:03for example, in the opinion of many in the region,
00:10:07Pakistan was not able to play that
00:10:10role, apart from that. Apparently, in these negotiations,
00:10:14every sentence that is said is also recorded in writing.
00:10:17What was interesting to me was that apparently, regarding Pakistan,
00:10:21there was more exchange
00:10:24of words and sentences, which caused
00:10:27many conflicting statements from both sides to be
00:10:30published later in the media, regarding what message was
00:10:34exchanged through Pakistan. Alongside
00:10:37this view that if Qatar can,
00:10:41it can also create an atmosphere of concern
00:10:44and a negative outlook prevails in the region,
00:10:48where many in Iran are concerned. That concern
00:10:51is clearly felt here in the
00:10:54region as well. And I hear this from various sources
00:10:57that practically, the assumption
00:11:00is that unless a miracle happens
00:11:03and Qatar succeeds in reaching
00:11:06an agreement, otherwise war is at the doorstep. Nafiseh
00:11:10Kouhnavard was our senior correspondent for Middle East affairs, who was
00:11:13giving us these explanations from Beirut, Lebanon. Let's listen to
00:11:17a few short news items
00:11:18together.
00:11:22In the United Arab Emirates, the head of the Abu Dhabi
00:11:25National Oil Company warned that global crude oil reserves have
00:11:29sharply declined. Sultan Ahmed Al Jaber said that since
00:11:33the disruption of tanker traffic in the Strait of Hormuz, nearly
00:11:36one billion barrels of crude oil have been drawn from global reserves. According
00:11:40to this Emirati official, transportation
00:11:42and logistics costs, which were previously 5% of the price per barrel, have now
00:11:46reached over 30%. He called for an increase in strategic
00:11:49reserves. Ukrainian and Russian officials reported cyberattacks
00:11:53on emergency alert centers in both
00:11:57countries. On Sunday night, Ukrainian citizens received
00:12:00fake messages on their mobile phones about the danger of radioactive
00:12:04materials, chemical attacks, and the possibility of street clashes
00:12:08in Kyiv. Ukraine blamed Russia for hacking
00:12:11and sending these messages. BBC cannot independently confirm
00:12:15these details. A few hours later, Russia also claimed that its
00:12:19alert center was targeted by a large-scale cyberattack.
00:12:22The governor of Hebron says that Israeli forces
00:12:26have withdrawn from the center of this province in the southern occupied West Bank
00:12:30after a 10-day siege. According to him, Palestinian security forces
00:12:33have taken control of the area. The mayor of Hebron also
00:12:37said that families who were forced to leave their homes
00:12:41can now return. Students and university students also
00:12:44went to schools and universities for the first time in 10 days.
00:12:48The Israeli army besieged the city about 10 days ago
00:12:51following a deadly shooting of its soldiers. Thank
00:12:58you for being with us so far. Let's go to America. One of the most sensitive and
00:13:02controversial electoral races in America is the
00:13:05attempt to seize a Senate seat from the state
00:13:08of Michigan. Polls show two rivals, a Democrat and
00:13:12a Republican, neck and neck. On one side of this race is
00:13:16a Muslim of Arab descent who has been nominated by the Democratic Party, and from the US
00:13:19President to his party members, many have criticized
00:13:22him, and some criticize him.
00:14:00is very different from the candidate that the Republicans have presented.
00:14:03The Republicans are very close to Mr. Trump. Abdullah
00:14:07Al-Sayed, what he says is very different. One of the issues he raises
00:14:11specifically is that money should not be spent
00:14:15on America, the money of American voters, but rather in
00:14:18other countries, including, for example, Israel, and, for example,
00:14:22Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and other places, specifically.
00:14:49supported the Republicans. Why?
00:14:52Look, the Democratic
00:14:56primaries in Michigan were a very
00:14:59difficult competition for the two candidates, and it
00:15:03left a lot of wounds, especially since
00:15:07Al-Sayed actually took action, and this point
00:15:10for the other
00:15:13candidate was very costly
00:15:16and caused her to lose. And the issue of taking
00:15:20money from Israeli lobbies, from AIPAC, was
00:15:22emphasized, and the emphasis was that for the Senate
00:15:26election, for the election
00:15:29in Michigan, our emphasis should be on the people.
00:15:32Therefore, this issue, that
00:15:35Ms. Stevens actually took money from the Israeli lobby,
00:15:39and the emphasis on that, created a very large gap
00:15:42that was not filled. And Al-Sayed, in the past few months,
00:15:46did not want Stevens to come
00:15:50and participate in his campaign. And some said that it was a matter
00:15:53of principle, meaning it was true that the primaries were over
00:15:57and everyone was behind the Democratic ticket, but the issues
00:16:00they disagreed on were very fundamental. And now it's interesting that
00:16:04Ms. Heidi Stevens, who is the Democratic candidate,
00:16:50large Muslim population, you expect surprises.
00:16:54Look, it's very important
00:16:58that in the city of Detroit
00:17:01and the city of Ann Arbor, where the state university, the University
00:17:05of Michigan, is located, and in the city itself,
00:17:37to raise more money, and in any case,
00:17:40many people have been drawn to this issue and should participate in the election.
00:17:44The New York Times newspaper last night published a poll
00:17:47regarding what would happen if the election were held right now.
00:17:51Mr. Al-Sayed was actually about 10-11 points ahead
00:17:55of Mark Rogers, who is the Republican candidate.
00:17:58Specifically, we have seen that since 2006, polls
00:18:01have differed by 45 degrees, 45,
00:18:05in fact, a bit from reality. Even
00:18:09if we say that 5-6% is closer to reality,
00:18:13this gap still seems to indicate
00:18:16that
00:18:19Al-Sayed still has a very good chance in this fight.
00:18:23We have one or two minutes, Mr. Memarian, about the elections in
00:18:26America. We cannot talk about Iran and all the controversies
00:18:30that have arisen in the past short time.
00:18:33Where does this Iranian controversy stand in the American elections
00:18:37one day before the end of voting
00:18:40in these elections? The
00:18:43controversy about Iran in the American elections?
00:18:46It is important in this regard because it relates to the increase in people's
00:18:50expenses in many states where, coincidentally, Mr. Trump
00:18:54won against his opponent Kamala Harris by a margin of 10%, 15%, 20%
00:18:57in the presidential elections there. In these very states,
00:19:01the price of gasoline and diesel in some of these states, where people
00:19:04are, for example, farmers, the increase
00:19:24in prices is linked to the war, and the fact that for many,
00:19:28it is not understandable why this war started, and Mr. Trump, who
00:19:31had promised not to start any war, and this was one of the issues that
00:19:35was very important to the people.
00:19:47The issue of war, linked to the cost of living,
00:19:50has had a complete impact, and I even saw several reports where people said that their primary
00:19:54concern was the issue of war with Iran and why this war
00:19:58even started, and that Mr. Trump betrayed
00:20:01his promises in that he should not have started a war, and he did, and now we have to pay
00:20:05the costs. Therefore, in terms of
00:20:07the increasing cost of living, it is very noticeable. The issue of war,
00:20:11its costs, and why Mr. Trump started the war, are heard by
00:20:15voters in many states. These
00:20:18issues, Omid Memarian, political analyst at the Dawn Institute from
00:20:22Detroit, Michigan. Thank you. The final
00:20:25item of today's program must
00:20:28unfortunately or with deep concern still
00:20:32be about the war, and we must conclude it. As
00:20:36we said at the beginning of the program.
00:20:45Wang Yi met with China. In this meeting, Wang Yi said that China supports Iran in defending its sovereignty
00:20:48and security. A special Chinese envoy is also expected
00:20:52to visit the Persian Gulf region soon, meeting and talking
00:20:55with officials in Iran, Oman, and Saudi Arabia. China
00:20:59has previously played a role in mediation efforts to end
00:21:02the US-Israel war with Iran. However, it now seems
00:21:06that with the increasing likelihood of a renewed war
00:21:10after the US midterm congressional elections, Beijing officials
00:21:14are preparing to play a more active role
00:21:17in this regard. Omid Parsanejad from Serdoyi.
00:21:32that something really might come out of it, because it has high economic power. It has
00:21:36high motivation, because it is one of the biggest importers
00:21:40of energy, and the rise in energy prices
00:21:43puts a lot of pressure on China's economy. Of course,
00:21:46during these few months, they have tried to use
00:22:05energy supply to maintain stability
00:22:08in the Persian Gulf region. It has economic cooperation
00:22:12with Arab countries there, it has invested there,
00:22:14and it expects to make more
00:22:18investments and economic activities there
00:22:22in the coming years. Therefore, the current situation in
00:22:25the Persian Gulf and the threat of war returning
00:22:29in a much more destructive way, as Iran has threatened
00:22:32that if America or
00:22:34Israel attack Iran's infrastructure, and they have also
00:22:38made such a threat, Iran will attack the infrastructure
00:22:41of its allies and countries that have
00:22:45provided their bases and airspace
00:22:48to America and
00:22:52Arab neighbors in the southern Persian Gulf, and if this
00:22:55happens, then it will have serious
00:22:59effects on both the fuel market and the investments
00:23:02China has made and the future it has envisioned for that region.
00:23:06Therefore, it has a very serious motivation, economic power,
00:23:09and high diplomatic power. It has all three. You mentioned motivation,
00:23:13and in the field of news or
00:23:17diplomacy, it is very common to say that the level at which
00:23:20discussions are taking place indicates how much
00:23:24importance countries attach to those discussions. This level that China is
00:23:28currently trying to
00:23:30advance the equations,
00:23:33the Foreign Minister is at this level.
00:23:37I want to know how much Xi Jinping
00:23:40is concerned about engaging in discussions with Donald Trump
00:23:43about this. Look, the Chinese
00:23:46may not have the long diplomatic
00:23:50experience that, for example, the Americans or even the Russians have,
00:23:54because they have been trying to play a role in the world
00:23:57of diplomacy for a few years now, and
00:24:01their way of governing their country is different from other countries in the world.
00:24:04That's true, but despite this, the level
00:24:08you just referred to is not even at that level. Just today,
00:24:12it was reported that bin Salman,
00:24:15in fact, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, who practically
00:24:19governs Saudi Arabia, wrote a letter to
00:24:22Xi Jinping, and next week
00:24:25or soon in the coming days, a special Chinese envoy is expected
00:24:29to be sent to the region to visit Iran, Oman, and Saudi Arabia
00:24:33and meet with officials of these countries. Therefore,
00:24:36it is true that Xi Jinping himself
00:24:39may not make statements about Iran and the region on camera,
00:24:42but this does not mean that he is not concerned
00:24:46or not involved, especially since it was reported that during his meeting
00:24:50and discussion with Trump, one of the issues that was raised
00:24:54was this issue of Iran and energy.
00:24:57Apparently, yes. And
00:25:00therefore, the ability that China has even today,
00:25:03for example, when the Chinese Foreign Minister says that we
00:25:06support Iran's defense
00:25:09of its sovereignty and security, well, this
00:25:13support can start with verbal support, but Americans
00:25:17know that this may not be limited to that.
00:25:21Satellite images might, I don't know, even weapons at
00:25:25some stage. China has the ability to change
00:25:29this equation. Therefore, it has the power to influence
00:25:32this issue. In the past, if you remember, the Qataris
00:25:36once said that this was the second or third time that the
00:25:40Qataris were mediating, and they explicitly
00:25:42said that this was at China's initiative.
00:25:46And regarding the involvement of Pakistanis,
00:25:49these reports were always there, and it was never
00:25:53denied that Pakistanis are also
00:25:56conducting these mediations with China's support. I understand.
00:26:00In one minute, on the other side of the issue, the decision-making system
00:26:03in Iran, on a day when there is talk of negotiations,
00:26:07a Qatari gas tanker is targeted. They are aware of
00:26:11the crisis, but how is decision-making done
00:26:14there? Decision-making is, in any case, in the Supreme
00:26:18National Security Council, apparently with the oversight of Mojtaba
00:26:22Khamenei from a distance. Just today, Mr. Pezeshkian said
00:26:26that the Leader has also given the government certain powers in these negotiations.
00:26:30Therefore, regarding the
00:26:34issue, it is clear that regarding, for example, the nuclear program, they are not
00:26:38yet willing to talk. But regarding the opening of the Strait of Hormuz
00:26:42in exchange for lifting the naval blockade,
00:26:45it seems they are open and ready. The reason is that
00:26:49they want to return to the situation before the war. These
00:26:53two, the Strait of Hormuz, were open, and there was no blockade. Let's go back to
00:26:56that point and start again. Thank you, Omid. Omid Parsanejad, one of the editors of
00:27:00BBC Persian, here in the BBC
00:27:02Radio studio with me, Nasser Madani, and also Amir Nategh, the producer
00:27:06of this program. I wish you a good evening.
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