Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00not a single issue, that is, the single issue and I believe he says it in one of the passages of the
00:00:03book, he does not want to reduce this woman to
00:00:06tragic, and that gradually,
00:00:10little by little, we will
00:00:12open for Serbia, the door to rectify the era, but we will especially think of this woman's destiny which is
00:00:16extremely moving and more and more, the more
00:00:20delay in implementing the Court's we delve into her life, the destiny of women also and also the
00:00:22treatment by the police, in particular, of the investigation
00:00:26because she is a woman, he has a passage at one point.
00:00:30where he says that the commissioner, in fact, says well, she had breasts, I don't know
00:00:33how, and it's the only description he gives of this
00:00:37dead woman and at that moment Philip calls the
00:00:40descriptions of
00:00:41European Commission has proposed a reform of Maigret, in fact, of Simenon in Maigret and indeed in Maigret he
00:00:45quotes the senses in fact, it's very very astonishing
00:00:49and this play of mirrors with Maigret's investigations, he
00:00:52read all of Maigret and Maigret is one of the characters in the book
00:00:54uh creates, however, indeed
00:00:58a reflection on the... and especially what we have hopefully
00:01:02gained with regard to this view of the
00:01:05female condition, whether through
00:01:09yeah and his documentary work on it and archive is quite impressive to
00:01:12transcribe this era. So, Philippe Genada had in front of him
00:01:16Yannick Haenel for "The Solitude of Teachers Is Infinite",
00:01:19Clémentine Meloy for "Something I Thought I Had Lost" and Sylvain Prudhomme
00:01:23for "On the Other Side of the Lake". Well, I admit I had a slight preference for the latter, which took us into these
00:01:27mountain landscapes, there too for... an investigation, but something
00:01:31entirely different about our relationship with nature and the desire to live differently. Did
00:01:35you have a favorite from the bookstore? Well, in fact,
00:01:38we had, uh, after uh, a few rather
00:01:42tumultuous weeks, this literary season has been, we'll talk about it, eventful or
00:01:45rather eventful, we had arrived at a final that was actually very calm,
00:01:49very calm in the good sense of the term, since we had four authors with
00:01:53four good books that each
00:01:55had brought before the Court of Justice of corresponded to their own universes and truly particular universes.
00:01:58Uh, and it could have been any of the
00:02:01what it is... the primacy of Union four, in fact, the issue is not, there were four good books in the final and that was
00:02:05actually rather calm compared to that and for example,
00:02:08Yannick Haenel's is a very very beautiful book, also very
00:02:12well, and so, which is undoubtedly the most beautiful title of the season, "The Solitude of Teachers is Infinite."
00:02:15What a title, and with this resonance with current events, which
00:02:18necessarily attracts I imagine, readers, and we
00:02:22will note, however, that the laureate is again a
00:02:25man. In 124 editions, the Goncourt has crowned only 13
00:02:29women, either alone, at least once out of 10, and this rate has not
00:02:32changed much until today, while women, we remind you, have written 53
00:02:36% of the novels registered in 2025 by
00:02:39the legal deposit observatory of the National Library of France.
00:02:43Parity, we're not quite there yet at the Goncourt, it still
00:02:46has work to do. And since we're talking about figures,
00:02:49Stanislas, for 10 years, the books awarded the
00:02:53ambushed China, we are going to talk about Goncourt have sold at least 200,000 copies in the year of
00:02:56their victory. That continues in subsequent years, almost 500...
00:03:00for Laurent Mauvignier, so for last year, "The Empty House," you notice it, I imagine,
00:03:04also in bookstores, for
00:03:07readers, the red banner is really a
00:03:10disputes between states and EU guarantee of quality, this one in fact is the only prize that systematically
00:03:13multiplies, that is to say that even a very criticized competition, even a competition that is perhaps
00:03:16weak, it will be a sale, typically in
00:03:19the bookstore, a competition, well, it's
00:03:21prohibited any mention of 300 copies, he has very few books that I sell 300 copies a
00:03:25year in fact, so that means that even a
00:03:28competition not... not really important or one like that remains
00:03:32a very big sale and for example in recent
00:03:35years, Andrea Bescond's "Veiller sur elle," uh, it's coming back in
00:03:39January, we're very impatient, uh, sold
00:03:42250,000 copies, that's it, and after that, don't forget that there's the paperback
00:03:46release, there's the amplification of the paperback, we're talking about Mauvignier, Mauvignier
00:03:50still doesn't exist in paperback, we still sell it extremely well and I think
00:03:53at Christmas we're going to give it away a lot again, so it's really a
00:03:56upheaval for the author, it's an economic upheaval, we remind you that the prize
00:04:00is not endowed, that's right, only a small symbolic check of 10 euros,
00:04:04so when Philippe Genada hopes to find his quiet and isolated life again, it won't be
00:04:07for right away.
00:04:10We can tell him, we were just talking about it, it's true that the
00:04:14race for this Goncourt prize 2026 was marked by the
00:04:18controversy that is somewhat stirring up the
00:04:21publishing world right now, the one concerning the book by
00:04:24Tellison Aurélien, it was that of Mourir, which appeared on the lists of
00:04:28many literary prizes, the Canadian author... of Haitian origin who was accused
00:04:31of using artificial intelligence for
00:04:34the writing of this very noticed first novel, suspicions confirmed
00:04:37since by his Canadian publishing house who terminated his
00:04:40contract and his name was therefore eliminated from all the lists of all the
00:04:44prizes. Stanislas Rigo, what is your view on all that,
00:04:48is it also a concern in bookstores for
00:04:50readers? No, I think, well, it's a
00:04:54question, this affair, it's above all a great
00:04:57sadness, it's a great sadness because we loved this book so much
00:05:01in fact, and when I say sadness it's not that he was served, we
00:05:04don't know exactly what happened, maybe indeed, well, I'm
00:05:08willing to believe that the whole book was written by AI, but at that point, go ahead and
00:05:12write such a beautiful book, in fact, by pressing a
00:05:14button. And I loved this book so much,
00:05:17uh, I read it twice, I received the author, it
00:05:20really broke my heart, really. Should there be a mention,
00:05:23perhaps, written with AI? Is this something we could
00:05:27imagine, in fact, in all the crystallization of the
00:05:30debates, there have been so many debates about it, in fact, what has been very, very
00:05:34little heard is what is, however, one of the keys, in my opinion, to the problem of the
00:05:38book, which is that the book is not bad, the book is formidable, in fact, and it's
00:05:42that which... in fact, I can't recompose myself with respect
00:05:45to the attitude, me, the reader, it's a book that made me cry and
00:05:49uh, that doesn't happen to me very often,
00:05:51and so I don't know what to do with these tears
00:05:55now that they tell me that maybe it's not him, and so
00:05:59on, but we'll remember the quality of the book, the quality of the book,
00:06:02uh, one last word, we are in the middle of the literary prize season,
00:06:05so there's the Goncourt, the Renaudot prize was awarded shortly
00:06:09after to François-Henri Des Eras for Le Palais, the
00:06:12Medicis prize was for Philippe Vassé, a word because we both, I think,
00:06:16share a love for this book, for Hanne
00:06:19Godard's, "Nous aussi," published by Act Sud, she received the Prix
00:06:22Décembre, she was gradually eliminated from all the other prizes, but
00:06:26it's still a favorite, a very big favorite, and many of us have a big favorite for
00:06:30Hanne Godard's, read Hanne Godard,
00:06:33"Nous aussi," it's a magnificent book about
00:06:36family, it's carried by brilliant writing, it's at Acte
00:06:40Sud, it's in the sales, it's very, very high, although the author is little
00:06:43known, or not known at all, and it has been at the top of novel sales for weeks,
00:06:47and rightly so, it's a very great book and it's true that for me it was
00:06:50a great discovery of this literary season and
00:06:54I hope we will be able to carry it for a long time yet, yes, with this refrain
00:06:58around the use of the pronoun "on" which, well, encompasses these
00:07:02silences in the family and the violence also done to children, I won't tell
00:07:50Hello everyone, welcome to Ici l'Europe on France 24 and Radio
00:07:54France Internationale. With a disruptive American president like
00:07:58Donald Trump who challenges international law, an expansionist
00:08:02Vladimir Putin and an
00:08:05the rule of law in Europe, and for that we welcome
00:08:08the president of the Court of Justice of the European Union.
00:08:13Hello, this institution, I specify,
00:08:16European, is based in Luxembourg and interprets European
00:08:19legislation, settles
00:08:23institutions, but also sometimes those opposing individuals, businesses,
00:08:26NGOs to an institution that may have violated their rights. The Court of
00:08:30Justice is composed of 27 judges, 11 advocates general and it is
00:08:33presided over by you since 11 years, a Belgian, so CON
00:08:37Leenards, hello. Do you, globally, think
00:08:41that the rule of law in Europe is
00:08:45weakened and under attack right now? I believe
00:08:48that the rule of law in Europe is still
00:08:52very strong and very respected. In
00:08:54reality, the European Union itself is an
00:08:58expression of the rule of law. These are
00:09:01sovereign states in Europe, who have
00:09:04concluded treaties among themselves to
00:09:07jointly exercise parts
00:09:10of their own sovereignty.
00:09:13because they can do so more
00:09:17effectively and more efficiently, by
00:09:20this, I am already paraphrasing the profound
00:09:23meaning of the principle of subsidiarity, that is, what can be dealt with at the local level must
00:09:27be dealt with at the local level, what can be dealt with at the
00:09:31national level, at the national level, and at the European level, well,
00:09:34there we deal with it at the European level.
00:09:37Exactly,
00:09:39what can only be dealt with at that level. To be
00:09:43effective, that means at the lowest cost and
00:10:01celebrated by thousands of Serbs in the street. The list of students
00:10:05from civil society won the legislative elections with
00:10:08140 seats out of 250 against the ruling party.
00:10:25Tacos reacted after almost 2 years of demonstrations in favor of
00:10:28democracy, the rule of law and the fight against corruption, Serbs
00:10:32mobilized in unprecedented numbers, a new chapter can
00:10:37the EU is open and we are ready to move forward
00:10:40together. Canada is also continuing its negotiations
00:10:43with the EU. While some member states like France contest the
00:10:47associated member status which does not exist in European texts, all
00:10:51support this rapprochement. A summit took place on Thursday and Friday in
00:10:55Montreal to define the contours of this new strategic partnership,
00:10:58seen by both parties as an alternative to increasingly
00:11:02unstable relations with the United States. The
00:11:06the Frontex agency which would further tighten European migration policy,
00:11:10at stake, an increase in Frontex's budget and staff, but also
00:11:14the possibility of intervening outside the Union's borders to send
00:11:18people from third countries even before they reach the EU. This proposal
00:11:21raises serious concerns from human rights organizations. As a
00:11:25reminder, the Court of Justice of the European Union ruled in December
00:11:282025 that Frontex was responsible for guaranteeing the fundamental
00:11:32rights of individuals and the existence of written
00:11:35return decisions during joint return operations.
00:11:39Koen Lenaerts uh has
00:11:41indeed received referrals against certain countries, this was often the case against
00:11:45Hungary and Poland accused of authoritarian
00:11:47excesses. Poland now has the pro-European
00:11:51government of Donald Tusk and Hungary has also changed government. You have
00:11:55not missed it with Peter Magyar, do you have fewer
00:11:58referrals concerning them and above all, do you believe them capable of
00:12:01restoring a good rule of law? The good news
00:12:04here is indeed that we
00:12:07have fewer referrals, but above all, we have even had
00:12:11a case where the European Commission
00:12:15withdrew an action for infringement that it
00:12:20the European Union against Hungary because
00:12:23of the national sovereignty law
00:12:27that had been adopted during the previous government's
00:12:31mandate, the current government
00:12:35then
00:12:37approved by the Hungarian
00:12:41Parliament, a law that withdraws this
00:12:44former legislation, after which the European Commission
00:12:48withdrew the action, it was really a case of
00:12:51constitutional scope at the level of the entire
00:12:55European Union, and so it proves
00:12:58that finally the rule of law, the court
00:13:01can issue the boundaries of what
00:13:05the rule of law entails, but like any judicial
00:13:08decision, and this applies in all countries in the world,
00:13:12the implementation of judicial decisions is a
00:13:16task of the political, legislative
00:13:20and executive authorities. Let's take a concrete example, Mr. President, this year,
00:13:24precisely, uh... your Court of Justice of the European Union judged the law of
00:13:272021 intended to introduce severe measures against
00:13:31pedophiles and protect minors, but which de facto in Hungary
00:13:35restricted access to LGBT content in media and
00:13:38bookstores. The parliament with this new
00:13:41pro-European majority repealed this law which
00:13:46homosexuality, so jurisprudence moves the lines, right?
00:13:50Exactly, it's another example and I am
00:13:53grateful that you cited it. where therefore Hungary
00:13:56has adapted its legislation, so
00:14:00after our judgment, that is, to implement
00:14:02our judgment, all of this
00:14:05proves that the rule of law works in
00:14:09Europe, and that's why I also didn't
00:14:12speak of the rule of law in terms
00:14:15of conflict or in terms of conflict with
00:14:19our member states, no, the member states have all
00:14:22committed to respecting these common values that I
00:14:26cited, when a member state crosses the
00:14:29red lines, that is, the essential content of these
00:14:33values, the court must state it in its
00:14:36jurisprudence, and the member states, and the two
00:14:39Hungarian examples demonstrate the
00:14:42implementation of the Court of Justice's judgment. You have also been seized by the European Commission for
00:14:46infringement of the rule of law in the case of Slovakia under Robert Fico,
00:14:50who is a populist accused of dismantling anti-corruption measures
00:14:53and not giving access for defendants to a
00:14:57lawyer, uh, and if this state, since
00:15:01the government has not changed, does not comply with your binding opinions,
00:15:04what happens? In such a case, when the court
00:15:08finds the infringement, it is
00:15:10incumbent, in line with what I have just said, on the political
00:15:14power, both at the European level and at the national
00:15:17level, to implement the judgment. At the European level, it is
00:15:21the European Commission, the executive, if you will,
00:15:24which monitors the implementation of our judgment by the
00:15:28member state. If the member state were to
00:15:31remain in default of doing so, the Commission can
00:15:35launch a second infringement procedure before
00:15:38the Court of Justice with fines and demand
00:15:42exactly financial sanctions. These financial
00:15:45sanctions can be either a fine,
00:15:49technically it's called a lump sum, uh,
00:15:52accompanied by a penalty payment per day of
00:15:57judgment, and these financial
00:16:00sanctions really have an impact
00:16:04because, uh, they are collected by...
00:16:07afterwards by a withholding from the funds due
00:16:11by the European Union to the member state concerned, and
00:16:14so normally that is enough for the
00:16:18member state to comply with the rule of law here, that's what
00:16:22happened in Hungary, there was a yes but wait, these financial
00:16:25sanctions, these are the member states
00:16:28themselves who have foreseen this through
00:16:31successive modifications of the initial treaties
00:16:34in which there were no such fines,
00:16:38uh, so precisely to
00:16:41ensure that all member states implement the judgments
00:16:44of the Court of Justice because otherwise equality
00:16:48between member states and their citizens before
00:16:52Union law would no longer be ensured, that is what we are
00:16:55talking about when we talk about the rule of law. Let's also talk about some sensitive issues
00:16:59such as frozen Russian assets,
00:17:03especially in Belgium, they are through the clearing system.
00:17:06Belgium, which fears legal proceedings for its
00:17:10country by the Russians, does that seem
00:17:13to you, as a good jurist, a serious
00:17:16legal threat? In reality, the legal threats we are
00:17:20talking about are not played out directly before the
00:17:24courtroom of the Court of Justice of the European Union, that
00:17:28being said, all the decisions taken at
00:17:31the European level can be
00:17:34challenged before the Court of Justice of the European
00:17:37Union, so it is not excluded that a
00:17:41case, whatever the decision taken, will still
00:17:44reach us, so that's why on the specific case, I cannot
00:17:48comment, but the questions we have on the
00:17:52Russian sanctions are important, because these
00:17:55are generally Russian oligarchs who have
00:17:59been listed, as we say, so
00:18:02that is, included, uh, on a list of
00:18:05people against whom sanctions are in
00:18:09force, and these people obviously contest
00:18:13the legality of this, an example that concerns
00:18:16France in reality, it was Russia Today
00:18:19France which had been put already in
00:18:232022 on the list of EU sanctions and
00:18:27which attacked this decision before
00:18:30the Court of Justice of the European Union and so
00:18:34there Russia Today said, "Ah, I cannot be
00:18:37put on this list because I claim freedom,
00:18:41uh, of the press." So the Tribunal
00:18:44decided that freedom of the press has its limits
00:18:48when the media outlet is financed by a third
00:18:51country and is therefore an instrument of propaganda that
00:18:55incites hatred between peoples and
00:18:58war. So there you see again these values on which
00:19:02the European Union is founded,
00:19:04also frame the implementation of fundamental
00:19:07rights here, freedom of the press. So, precisely since we're talking about freedom, we're
00:19:11going to talk about another court, but this will interest you, the
00:19:15Sakharov Prize for Freedom of Thought was awarded to the International
00:19:19Criminal Court. When you see that a Trump
00:19:22administration, which is angry about the indictment of Benjamin Netanyahu concerning
00:19:25Gaza, brandishes sanctions and plans a freeze of assets in the United States and
00:19:29a ban on entry into the United States for all personnel of the International
00:19:33Criminal Court, does that frighten you, this desire to
00:19:36undermine the guarantors of international law, judges
00:19:40first? Fear is perhaps a tiny bit exaggerated,
00:19:43but it is a huge concern because
00:19:47since the Second World
00:19:50War, since the declaration of Robert
00:19:53Schuman on so
00:19:56the communal Europe as he saw it, concrete
00:19:59achievements that create a de facto
00:20:03solidarity, so in fact the relations
00:20:06between states in Europe have
00:20:09been based on rules, the rules of
00:20:13law that have been agreed between
00:20:16states that respect each other and are
00:20:19supportive. The International Criminal Court is an
00:20:23expression of the same idea but at the global
00:20:25level regarding the prosecution
00:20:29of the most heinous crimes which are
00:20:33crimes against humanity, and
00:20:35therefore I told you the...
00:20:37human is the first value of the European Union so
00:20:41yes the judges of the International Criminal
00:20:44Court are our brothers and sisters just
00:20:48like the judges of the European Court of Human Rights, so all
00:20:52these courts that strive to make
00:20:55the law prevail, the rule of law, to
00:20:58protect citizens against the arbitrariness of
00:21:01a power, of an authoritarian power, of an
00:21:05oligarchic power, those in power who
00:21:08make citizens believe that the rule of
00:21:12law is the opposite of democracy, it is in
00:21:16reality with a view to a
00:21:20capacity of judges who could limit
00:21:23arbitrariness in the exercise of their power, but if
00:21:27you look at the great powers in the
00:21:30world, the leaders in place
00:21:34are actually much more, uh,
00:21:37an exercise of personal power, in a sense,
00:21:40a personal power where the
00:21:44press is neutralized, judges are neutralized, political
00:21:47opposition is discredited, that is to say, all pluralistic,
00:21:51tolerant, inclusive democracy, in
00:21:55reality, isn't it? and therefore in fact neutralized.
00:21:59The European states that founded the European Union
00:22:02have therefore committed to this, and have even
00:22:05committed, it is Article 3, paragraph 5 of the Treaty on
00:22:09European Union, to respond to
00:22:12through their international relations
00:22:16with the rest of the world, the same values as...
00:22:23Uh, in France, you can see that we are on the eve of a presidential
00:22:26election, where the party leading the polls, the Rassemblement
00:22:30National, defends the primacy of national law over European law,
00:22:33uh, and therefore, that a
00:22:36state can decide alone on the rules
00:22:39without European supervision,
00:22:41indeed,
00:22:43what does that inspire in you? I take your question, uh, as
00:22:47an opportunity to express
00:22:51law and in reality it's very
00:22:54simple, when you make a
00:22:56contract,
00:22:59and this is what the member states have done with the other 26
00:23:02member states, each member state, France has concluded a
00:23:06contract with the 26 other member states
00:23:09uh of the European Union and we call this contract the
00:23:13treaties and all the rules made by the
00:23:16European Parliament and the Council of the European Union in co
00:23:19decision, the legislative acts of the Union,
00:23:23the primacy, it is quite simply
00:23:25the expression of a principle known since
00:23:29time immemorial in international law, pacta
00:23:33sunt servanda, we must respect
00:23:36our word, and that applies to France, to
00:23:39Germany, to Belgium, to Poland, to Hungary, to
00:23:43all 27 member states, and the reason
00:23:46is very clear, if a member state
00:23:50were to say
00:23:52unilaterally: no, I didn't understand
00:23:55it that way, I have to do
00:23:59what I choose now, in reality,
00:24:02that state breaks the contract to which
00:24:06it committed, just like a private person, as you know,
00:24:09we can't do that either, this primacy is
00:24:13the ultimate guarantee, once again,
00:24:16of equality among member states and their citizens.
00:24:20Citizens are equal before the treaty. National
00:24:23elections are also European elections, because they
00:24:27will determine how that member state will assert
00:24:30its point of view in the common exercise
00:24:34of those aspects of national sovereignty that have been entrusted
00:29:36Volunteers are trying to convince the rest
00:29:39of them.
00:29:44political and business leaders from 130
00:29:47countries.
00:29:52Today, the atmosphere is very different in
00:29:55the
00:30:01city.
00:30:22thank you for joining us in Strasbourg in a European Parliament, currently
00:30:26focused on Washington and holding its breath before the results of the
00:30:29midterms, the mid-term elections in the United States. which
00:30:32renews Congress. A majority of European leaders and parties
00:30:36quietly wish for a defeat of Donald Trump in this election and
00:30:39a weakening of his policy, which seeks to challenge international law
00:30:43and multilateralism. In recent weeks, the American president
00:30:46has once again worried Europeans by lifting sanctions against
00:30:50Russia and concluding an agreement to import Russian diesel to
00:30:54the United States, which significantly weakens Ukraine and its
00:30:57allies. Yes, so Donald Trump hopes.