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00:00:15Hello and welcome to Face to Face on France 24. Our
00:00:19guest is Barack, former Prime
00:00:22Minister of Israel. He joins us from Tel Aviv. Thank you very much, Mr. Barak,
00:00:26for being with us.
00:00:28Thank you. The election results are in.
00:00:32The coalition led by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu came
00:00:35first with 53 seats, 15 fewer
00:00:39than in the previous formation in the Knesset. The opposition platform
00:00:42led by former Chief of Staff Gady Eisenkott won
00:00:4648 seats, and two Arab lists won
00:00:4919 seats, a record. The election was
00:00:53largely seen as a referendum on Netanyahu, who is
00:00:56still supported by a good number of
00:01:01Israelis. What do you think? How do you explain
00:01:02this?
00:01:05First, I would like to comment on the election
00:01:09results. In the current
00:01:12government, Netanyahu has the
00:01:15support of 68 members of the Knesset.
00:01:1952 members are against him. This time, it's
00:01:23the opposite.
00:01:26He has 67 members against him, and
00:01:29only 53 in his favor. If
00:01:32we compare these results to a French system, it's
00:01:36Eisenkott who would have
00:01:39won.
00:01:41It's only if we ignore, for one reason or another,
00:01:45the Arab parties
00:01:48that Netanyahu can win. But these are Israeli
00:01:51citizens. They have the right to vote.
00:01:55The Declaration of Independence promises them
00:01:58representation in all
00:02:02institutions according to their size in the
00:02:04country. So this presentation is
00:02:07misleading. Netanyahu did not win. He lost, and by
00:02:11a large margin. But on the other hand, the change bloc led by
00:02:14Eisenkott won.
00:02:17But Netanyahu managed to delegitimize the Arab
00:02:21vote. If he were
00:02:23think the cost of living, which was therefore the cost of logical, with his past position, he could have taken
00:02:27it seriously, but no.
00:02:30Let's think about what Netanyahu would have done if it had been the
00:02:34opposite. Mansour Abbas, who heads the
00:02:37small Arab party of 8
00:02:40deputies, said that
00:02:44a major impact on everyone and then it Netanyahu had invited him three times to his
00:02:46residence in the past to
00:02:49convince him to forge an alliance with
00:02:52him. I have known Netanyahu for a very long time,
00:02:56for decades.
00:02:58that's published by I'll tell you one thing.
00:03:02Today,
00:03:04Netanyahu could immediately invite Mansour Abbas, offer
00:03:08How Evangelical Far-Right him the post of Minister of the Interior in a
00:03:11government or accede to his demands. He
00:03:15could invite the leader of the other party, Ahmed
00:03:18Tibi, make him Minister of
00:03:20Health,
00:03:24and he would completely ignore the reproaches that could be made to
00:03:27him, the same reproaches he is making to Eisenkott right
00:03:31now. But this is in full contradiction with his pre-election
00:03:34promises.
00:03:37If someone reproached Netanyahu for not keeping his
00:03:41promises,
00:03:43he would have said, "But that's the difference between you and me, between me, Netanyahu, and you,
00:03:47the opposition. You only talk about equality,
00:03:51talk about integrating Arabs into
00:03:54Israeli politics, but I do
00:03:57it. I act." And he would not have the slightest
00:04:00cognitive dissonance. He only does what
00:04:03suits him, and Eisenkott should do the same
00:04:06thing. Yes, but the problem is
00:04:10that Eisenkott himself and his allies,
00:04:13except the leader
00:04:17question of the of the Democratic Party, Mr. Golan, have declared: "We will not
00:04:21form a coalition with the
00:04:24Arab parties." So what to do? Change his mind
00:04:27or simply stick to his initial
00:04:30position? But of course he can change
00:04:34his mind. It's even in Israeli
00:04:38jumped on this theme by culture.
00:04:41question of What I said is probably rather socialist candidate from a little too detailed for the French
00:04:44viewer, but if Netanyahu had been in the same situation as
00:04:48congratulate the new governor-elect of Eisenkott, he would not have hesitated for a second to go back on his
00:04:51promises. In fact, for the past 4 or 5 years,
00:04:55there have been many elections,
00:04:58too many in Israel, but... each time, he changed
00:05:01his mind. Once I was asked to
00:05:05define in one sentence the difference between Eisenkott and
00:05:08Netanyahu, two men I have known for decades.
00:05:12I said Eisenkott cannot lie. He is
00:05:16physically incapable of it. He will start to
00:05:19sweat, to stammer. Netanyahu, on the other
00:05:22hand, cannot tell the truth. He lies as he
00:05:26breathes. He doesn't pay at restaurants when he
00:05:29goes there. He changes his political position all the
00:05:32time.
00:05:35You need to know who your rival is. If
00:05:39it's Netanyahu, promises don't matter.
00:05:43Go back on your promises, as Netanyahu would have
00:05:47done.
00:05:50Mr. Barak, we have heard allegations
00:05:53of potential foreign funding for
00:05:57Arab parties. An investigation has been launched by the Shin Bet.
00:06:01Qatar has been accused, but strongly rejects
00:06:04these accusations. The electoral commission
00:06:08also, but the Netanyahu camp argues that this proves that
00:06:11the election was rigged.
00:06:17That's a very good question.
00:06:20But what good can the Qataris do, who have active
00:06:24agents working for them, who are
00:06:27paid within Netanyahu's inner circle of
00:06:30collaborators, who work
00:06:33during a war, and during this time
00:06:37are paid by Qatar?
00:06:41They take secret
00:06:44information from Israel and leak
00:06:47it to Bild, the German newspaper, to
00:06:50influence the perception of Netanyahu,
00:06:53of Israel, of their behavior, and of Qatar compared to other countries like
00:06:57Egypt.
00:07:00So why would he want to help Netanyahu's
00:07:03opponents? The most
00:07:06probable explanation could be
00:07:09this: because he has a contradiction.
00:07:43Arab participation,
00:07:46he can say that the election was
00:07:48rigged. On the other
00:07:50hand,
00:07:54he can blame others. In
00:07:58Israel, this is called
00:07:59Cartargate.
00:08:03Netanyahu has his closest collaborators working
00:08:07for the enemy, but he can say no,
00:08:10no. "They don't work
00:08:14for me. They are undoubtedly involved at all
00:08:17levels of Israeli politics to disrupt the situation, but these
00:08:21are fake news.
00:08:25The real suspect
00:08:28should be Netanyahu's collaborators and government."
00:08:32Several reports warned that Netanyahu might attack Iran just before
00:08:36the election. This could also happen
00:08:39after the American midterm elections. Is it...
00:08:51When I started answering interviews in
00:08:53Israel,
00:08:55I said that Netanyahu is a desperate, trapped
00:08:59animal. He is ready to do anything to stay in
00:09:02power,
00:09:05to overcome the criticism against him. I raised
00:09:08the idea that Netanyahu would even be willing
00:09:12to go to war at the time of
00:09:15the elections to prevent the creation of a new government
00:09:19and remain in government until the next elections in the summer
00:09:22of 2027. Israeli journalists ridiculed
00:09:26this idea. They told me how can you dare to think
00:09:30that, but now everyone is talking about it.
00:09:33Netanyahu is ready to do
00:09:34it.
00:09:37It has nothing to do with Israeli national
00:09:40interest or the fight against the Iranian nuclear
00:09:43program. There is not the slightest
00:09:46information making an
00:09:50attack against Iran immediate,
00:09:53necessary.
00:09:56Nothing prevents us from delaying any
00:10:00decision by 2 to 6
00:10:02weeks, until a new
00:10:06responsible government, not
00:10:09biased by personal interests, comes to power,
00:10:13motivated only by the interest of the nation, and
00:10:16decides if it is necessary or not. Furthermore,
00:10:19Netanyahu says
00:10:21now that he can change the regime.
00:10:25Probably, the previous attacks last
00:10:29February had precisely that
00:10:31objective: a 40-day attack to change the Iranian
00:10:35regime, within the new
00:10:38framework described by
00:10:42Trump. And now Trump says, after the
00:10:45midterms, that he will help Israel in a very
00:10:49brief campaign to overthrow the regime. But that's
00:10:53ridiculous. Produced in Vietnam, in
00:10:56Iraq, in Afghanistan, or wherever
00:11:00else in the world. This reflects the
00:11:03illusions of people who need it for their political interests. It has
00:11:06nothing to do with reality. And Netanyahu is playing this game
00:11:10fully. He says: there could be a
00:11:13miscalculation on the part of the Iranians. The
00:11:17Iranians are fierce rivals and not
00:11:20stupid. They fully understand that
00:11:23any war against Israel and the
00:11:27United States benefits
00:11:30Netanyahu. He can
00:11:33delay the formation of a new
00:11:36government, and it also helps
00:11:40Trump. The Iranians have no
00:11:44interest in starting a war. Any
00:11:47statement by Netanyahu
00:11:50saying that he has information that could make
00:11:53one believe that the Iranians
00:11:57are planning something, these are fake news. It has nothing to do with
00:12:00reality. Mr. Barak, thank you very much for answering France
00:12:0424's questions, and thank you for following this edition of Face
00:12:08to Face on our channels.
00:12:23Well, in the debate, it's a... blue wave in the American Congress, a
00:12:26"blu-nami," as the American
00:12:29press writes. Democrats have taken control of the House of Representatives, but
00:12:33also the Senate. Trump accepted the election
00:12:36results, while also stating on his Truth Social network
00:12:40that Republicans would have won if his own name had been on the
00:12:43ballot. So what lessons can be drawn from these midterms? Is it a protest
00:12:47vote against Trump, a vote of support for Democrats? And if so, which
00:12:50Democrats are we talking about, the progressive wing or the centrists? And then
00:12:54what are the consequences for Trump's policy? We're going to
00:12:58talk about it with our guests. I'm pleased to have Tristan Cabelo by my side.
00:13:01Good evening. Good evening. Historian of the United States, welcome. Author of "The
00:13:04Victory of Zoran Mamdani in New York, a Laboratory for
00:13:08the Left" published by
00:13:11from you is Lor Mandville. Good evening. Good evening. Senior reporter
00:13:14for Le Figaro, author. You also have a book, Lor: "The
00:13:18Rebels of the West, from Trump to Zemmour, What's Really Happening," and
00:13:23L'Observatoire. Hélène Kounce, good evening. Thank
00:13:26you for being here. Professor of Finance at INSEEC Paris, author
00:13:29of "American Taliban,
00:13:33Fundamentalists Shape Today's United States," and that's also
00:13:36published by Pacific Publishing. We have with
00:13:40us tonight Will McGrew, journalist, editor-in-chief of Tele
00:13:43Louisiana. Good evening, and you are live from Washington with us tonight.
00:13:47So, good evening. Before
00:13:50starting this show, we're going to watch first, uh,
00:13:54what... We're in the House of Representatives, this blue wave
00:13:57for now, so it's 238 Democratic seats, but
00:14:00it's evolving because it's not over yet.
00:14:03230, 228 Democratic seats, sorry, for
00:14:07139 Republicans. And in the Senate,
00:14:10you'll see the map because it's very telling, two senators
00:14:13per state in the United States. You have 54
00:14:16Democratic seats. It's really this blue wave: Texas,
00:14:20Kansas, Michigan, South Carolina, North Carolina, Iowa, Maine,
00:14:24Ohio. And then there are two states left, Mississippi and Alaska, in
00:14:27which we are still waiting for the results. And
00:14:30then you see this map. His name is
00:14:34John Hossof in Georgia, Abdul El Sayed in Michigan,
00:14:37James Talarico in Texas, Annie Andrews,
00:14:41Democratic Senator from South Carolina. We're going to listen to a
00:14:44collection of their
00:14:46speeches.
00:14:54Hello!
00:15:01Thank you, Georgia. You did
00:15:05it.
00:15:09Let me be the first to publicly
00:15:13the state of
00:15:14Georgia.
00:15:20They may have been trying to draw attention to my name and my faith,
00:15:23but neither my name nor my faith prevents you from paying
00:15:27for your gas, from doing your shopping, or from seeing a
00:15:29doctor. So to all the children who followed this last
00:15:33month, and to all the parents who struggled to explain
00:15:37why the president openly mocked someone because of their
00:15:40name or their way of praying, tell them one
00:15:43thing: the bad guys lost. Tell them
00:15:47that together, by fighting for a greater cause, we
00:15:50won.
00:15:55We just proved that all the money in the world is no
00:15:58match for the people of
00:15:59Texas.
00:16:07Yes. We have just demonstrated that a politics of division is no
00:16:10match for a politics based on love.
00:16:24I believe we have just made history.
00:16:37South, you showed the nation what you are
00:16:41capable of.
00:16:46You showed the nation that in this era of partisan
00:16:50division, of vitriol and
00:16:52insults,
00:16:55in a politics dominated by billionaires and special
00:16:59interest groups in Washington, that we will not
00:17:03bow down.
00:17:07You can feel how moved she was, this new Democratic Senator from
00:17:11South Carolina, Annie Andrews, whom we are discovering a little
00:17:14in Europe.
00:17:17Were you expecting such a blue wave? Absolutely not. I
00:17:21was rather pessimistic. I feared
00:17:24that it would really be marginal, within the margins
00:17:27of error, and that Trump was extremely
00:17:30virulent. But the wave was such that even
00:17:33Trump backed down in the face of it. So what we see there in the Democratic
00:17:37party is a factory for personalities and
00:17:40profiles, and we are still reassured that tomorrow the next generation is
00:17:44there. The next generation is there, that's what we can see, in any case, very
00:17:47different profiles. Tristan Cabello, who wrote a book about the mayor of New York, Zoran
00:17:51Mamdani, well, ultimately the closest to Zoran Mamdani would be Abdul
00:17:54Sayyad, the senator from Michigan. But the others,
00:17:58frankly, John Talarico in Texas, that's more of a centrist line,
00:18:01Annie Andrews too in South Carolina, so very diverse
00:18:05indeed these profiles and... rather younger too.
00:18:09Yeah, it's a political renewal and a renewal
00:18:12of generations too, so a political renewal. They are all still aligned on
00:18:16this cost of living issue. So it's the big problem in the US, and these
00:18:20economic and social issues, there you go. Uh, less on identity issues, they rather campaigned
00:18:24on economic and social issues. They have answers that are a little
00:18:27different though depending on the socialists and the
00:18:30centrists, and uh, it's a generational renewal, and it's also the
00:18:34big return, you know, of DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion.
00:18:38They all have very different identities. There's a new one, there's a gay
00:18:42senator, there's uh, Elsayed who is Arab
00:18:45Muslim, there's a governor in New Mexico who
00:18:49is a Native American. So there you go, it's also the return of
00:18:52diversity in the United States, which had been a
00:18:55little swept under the rug during the first two years of
00:18:58Trump. There you go, programmatic renewal and also renewal of identities. So
00:19:02Mandeville, James Talarico, for him specifically, is the teacher-
00:19:05seminarian, the one who won in Texas, Texas which hadn't had a
00:19:09Democratic senator for 38 years. And he
00:19:13indeed has a line, what is it? We could say he's
00:19:16a kind of young Carter, that would be somewhat accurate, we would find a bit of that
00:19:19line there. Yes, indeed, with a side
00:19:22of putting family and faith
00:19:26first, very,
00:19:29I wouldn't say peace and love, but indeed, love your
00:19:32neighbor, so a desire to
00:19:35represent politics
00:19:38of simple people against, in fact, a form of oligarchy, against a
00:19:42form of corruption of power, of violence. We heard
00:19:45this theme a lot, corruption of power, and it's
00:19:49true that it found an important echo because there's also the whole
00:19:55aristocracy of money that Tocqueville talked about and which really
00:19:58seems well established in the American landscape.
00:20:01So a kind of recourse, and it's true that, for example, in Texas, he had
00:20:05at the same time all this mobility
00:20:08against data centers, against artificial intelligence, it was
00:20:12picked up, Democrats really
00:20:16linking it to the
00:20:19oligarchy, and it's also a failure for Elon Musk who personally funded
00:20:23the campaign in Texas against Talarico,
00:20:27200 million dollars just in Texas, yes, yes, but it's true
00:20:30that the profiles are very, very diverse and it
00:20:34shows, I think it still needs to be emphasized because we've said so many times that... American
00:20:38democracy was in peril and that it was disappearing,
00:20:41that there was a risk of dictatorship. People very
00:20:45well known, like, for example, Bob Kagan, a
00:20:48Republican anti-Trumpist,
00:20:52already painted the picture of a
00:20:54fascist dictatorship installed in the
00:20:57United States. And finally, this country shows that it
00:21:01is capable of, in a certain way, blowing the
00:21:05whistle on the beginning of the Trump era, I would say, and
00:21:08of proposing a form of
00:21:12alternation to, how can I say, balance
00:21:15things out a little. I would still say that, uh, this
00:21:18diversity of the Democratic Party that we see appearing
00:21:21uh hides in any case, yes, hides
00:21:25the fact that it is a party where there are
00:21:29many disagreements, where there is an enormous
00:21:32uncertainty about the line that will emerge. And so that will be the
00:21:35big challenge now for the next two years, which is
00:21:39whether exactly, whether the Democrats will be able
00:21:43to put together a candidate and a
00:21:46path, precisely, a unifying
00:21:49path for America. Will McGrew, you who
00:21:52are editor-in-chief of TeleLouisiana, so you are in Washington, you know these southern
00:21:56states very well, Texas, Georgia, North Carolina, South
00:22:00Carolina. Were you also very surprised by this blue
00:22:03wave, particularly in these states?
00:22:07Yes, of course, because we know that there are some states that are
00:22:11divisive states that have a
00:22:14possibility of a Democrat or a Republican winning, but
00:22:17it wasn't all those states and so... we thought at first that it
00:22:21was going to be a question of Georgia or North Carolina and
00:22:25finally it was a question of South Carolina and even Mississippi and
00:22:28even Louisiana it's really shocking
00:22:32that it was very close in
00:22:34fact the Democrat lost but it was
00:22:37really just by two points two percentage points which was really striking
00:22:41because the Democrats did not invest in that at all
00:22:44and I think that shows the way for the future in these southern states for the
00:22:48Democrats.
00:22:52Uh, yes, but also
00:22:55the regime that was being born,
00:22:58uh, from my point of view, you know, Project
00:23:012025 was largely completed, right?
00:23:04It was about 70% completed, so the people who were alarmed
00:23:08by the pace of dismantling institutions,
00:23:12uh, by Trump, well, they were perhaps not wrong. But what is
00:23:15very positive in this Democratic wave is that
00:23:19there is a common thread, which is decency. I think they all
00:23:23have at heart to be a bit of a return to decent
00:23:25politicians who perhaps respect
00:23:29the law a little more, or in any case, or perhaps even perfectly, who
00:23:33consider themselves exemplary in these matters, on the one
00:23:36hand. And then they have public service at heart,
00:23:40because the enormous mistake with Donald Trump is that we
00:23:43have the MAGA people who said, since he was a
00:23:46successful businessman, he would bring his skills
00:23:50to government. But absolutely not. What he does is that he used
00:23:54it, he brought his skills only for himself and his own, and that
00:23:58makes his pact of 2.2 billion dollars. And it is at this
00:24:01moment that we begin to create corruption, and he
00:24:04serves himself. There you go, corruption. We heard it a lot during the
00:24:08campaign. Most Democrats, whether centrist or further
00:24:12left, said: "We will fight against this corruption." We
00:24:15even talked about "crook Donald Trump" during the campaign. So Donald Trump, who
00:24:19has... reacted, he does not contest this election result. He immediately
00:24:23stated on his Truth Social network that Republicans would
00:24:27have won if his own name had been on the ballot. That's what
00:24:30he said. But in any case, he didn't really create
00:24:34confusion, he didn't want to throw mud on
00:24:38this result. Tristan Cabello, that too was perhaps a surprise. Yes,
00:24:42it was a surprise. Well, it reminds me a lot of Zoran Mamdani's election. When
00:24:46Zoran Mamdani was elected uh the mayor of New York, we had
00:24:49thought obviously that Donald
00:24:53Trump would send the National Guard,
00:24:57ICE, stop federal funds, etc. It didn't happen like
00:25:00that at all. It actually went quite well with Zoran Mamdani. Yes,
00:25:04it surprisingly went quite well. They met at Zoran
00:25:07Mamdani's house, they met at the White House.
00:25:11Well, it went quite well. And I just wanted to bounce back on what
00:25:14the person in Washington was saying: we also need to
00:25:18focus on the defeats, because... the defeats, they are, they are
00:25:22actually quite minor. We see, for example, Angie
00:25:24Nixon in Florida, a
00:25:30the left wing of the party, losing by two points. That's still
00:25:33incredible to lose by two points in Florida. Even the
00:25:37governor of Florida, for that matter, wins by very
00:25:39little. It's a, there you go, in very
00:25:42disputed districts, districts that have been
00:25:45redrawn. For example, the districts of Tennessee,
00:25:48in the, which have been redrawn by Jerry
00:25:52Mandering. Someone like Justin Pierson, who was one of the Justice
00:25:55Democrats, someone rather from the left of the party, there too he
00:25:59loses by 1 % in a
00:26:01constituency which was completely redrawn so that he would lose. So how do you
00:26:05explain it? Is it precisely anti-Trump?
00:26:08Was it "we don't choose Trump" or was it, on the contrary, an adherence to
00:26:12a new potential economic policy of
00:26:15perhaps increasing taxes on public services, more
00:26:18important because well, the cost of living, it's both. He had a
00:26:22rejection that was quite frank and quite massive but he also
00:26:25had a certain appeal for a
00:26:29program, which is a bit ambivalent, it must be said. Because the
00:26:33centrists and the and the people on the left do not
00:26:37agree on the program, they agree on the observations, they don't agree on the
00:26:40program and so in the 2 years to come, as you said, I think we will need to
00:26:44bring clarification in this Democratic
00:26:47party which no longer knows very well whether it's sailing
00:26:51right or left. Yes, but then how will he be in Congress, this party, all these
00:26:55Democrats, so what room for maneuver will they
00:26:59have before coming back to that, right? Precisely because I just want to hear about
00:27:02Jelly Vance's reaction, so it was a few moments ago that he said the reason for the
00:27:06defeat is the war against Iran. So there we see, and he's the first
00:27:10to have said it. Now Donald Trump apparently just said it
00:27:13as well because he he has a speech from the American president,
00:27:17but Lormandville immediately felt it nonetheless that
00:27:20he distinguished himself, he who was against this war in Iran, Jelly
00:27:24Vance, and he immediately put this war on,
00:27:28explaining that it's because of this war that ultimately he suffered such a setback against
00:27:31against. But exactly, because it allows him, indeed, in a way
00:27:35to exonerate himself, and
00:27:38it must be said that he is right because this is the conjunctural aspect,
00:27:42I would say, of the explanation that we must give, which is that, uh,
00:27:46we must not forget that in January, still, when you
00:27:49listened to the political experts on American
00:27:53domestic policy, they told you that the Republicans were
00:27:56set to win these midterm elections. They had
00:28:00uh, a card that was in their favor in January, in the month of
00:28:03January, that is, before the war. Yes, but after the gerrymandering too,
00:28:07before the war, but after,
00:28:10after the gerrymander, but anyway, it was
00:28:13the war that completely changed the situation, that is, its impact on
00:28:17inflation, exactly, I think the economic aspect is absolutely
00:28:20central, well, it's said by all the observers who were on the ground, I
00:28:26gasoline, which for Americans is something sacred because
00:28:30you have to understand that American civilization is the
00:28:33civilization of the car, the middle classes,
00:28:36working class,
00:28:38on the contrary, upper class and so on, everyone uses their car and so
00:28:42it had
00:28:46greatly increased the price of consumer goods
00:28:50and so Americans said to themselves, "But he's
00:28:53betraying us, he's campaigning both on the fact that he wouldn't go into
00:28:57distant and incomprehensible
00:29:00wars and also that he would take care of bringing
00:29:04uh, well, of bringing prices down to reasonable levels since he
00:29:08criticized Biden's prices. So it's true that suddenly these two
00:29:11issues appeared as central issues. I think I think there
00:29:15was something else with the war, it's perceived as
00:29:18being profoundly immoral and we are
00:29:22almost, there are many Americans who are very understanding
00:29:26and feel sorry for the Iranians
00:29:29so we don't defend this war from a strategic point of view.
00:29:33Militarily, economically, it visibly squandered a large part
00:29:36of our military stocks, it compromised other parts of the world, so
00:29:40it was a dismal failure from every point of view, and it really highlighted
00:29:44the capacity of a country at the end of the world that we know little about to
00:29:47really stand up to the United States and rather well get out of it and there you have it
00:29:50Trump acknowledges it just now that the war in Iran
00:29:53explains this
00:29:57defeat, but he's not against the war in Iran, that is to say
00:30:01despite everything if the war... and I think the American people, I'm a bit in disagreement
00:30:05with you, it's that I think that if he had succeeded, so to speak,
00:30:08that is, if the war
00:30:10had
00:30:13had lasted a few weeks and they had overcome
00:30:16this system, no one would have found anything
00:30:20to complain about the fact that he intervened. Yes, but all the military experts he
00:30:24didn't listen to told him that there was no way. You
00:30:28know, we had experts, we had people who
00:30:31spoke Farsi. We had people who were experts in Persian
00:30:35civilization and they let these people go, they said no, we don't need experts,
00:30:39but look at the result when amateurs do it. So what's interesting, since we're talking
00:30:42about these Democrats and their differences, is that they will sit from
00:30:46January, both the deputies and the senators. Hakeem
00:30:49Jeffries, so the
00:30:53of the Democrats in the House of Representatives, he spoke,
00:30:56he will also become the first Speaker of the House.