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00:00:16Hello everyone and welcome to this edition of "Actuel" dedicated to the
00:00:20US midterm elections. The
00:00:23midterms promise to be difficult for Donald Trump due to the rising
00:00:27cost of living caused by the war in Iran that he started in... February.
00:00:31But his political record also includes the methodical dismantling of
00:00:34women's rights: first, the termination of voluntary pregnancy, and then his
00:00:38support for measures that may reduce the number of women
00:00:42who can vote in the United States. So, how are
00:00:45women reacting to this policy? Does this rollback
00:00:49uh, and that belong to individual of their rights change their vote? To discuss this, I am
00:00:52pleased to speak today with Émilie Mitrand. Hello, you are a
00:00:55historian and Americanist, professor at the University of
00:00:59Toulon. And also with us, Briss Lambert, you are a
00:01:02journalist and filmmaker, you notably directed the documentary "Sexe
00:01:06faible, l'Amérique en guerre contre ses femmes" (The Weaker Sex, America at War Against its Women) for which you just received
00:01:10the Albert Londe award. Congratulations to you and thank you both
00:01:13for accepting "Actuel"'s invitation. Émilie, Donald Trump is directly
00:01:16attacking women's rights, first with the tightening of access to
00:01:20abortion. Will this affect women's votes in
00:01:24these midterm elections? Can it even change the outcome of the vote?
00:01:28uh, for these, for these... terms, meaning that women's reproductive
00:01:31rights, uh, including the right to abortion, are
00:01:35not at the forefront of the debates. Briss Lambert, you
00:01:38subtitled your film "America at War Against its
00:01:41Women." Were the women you met during your
00:01:44filming aware, or are they still, aware of the
00:01:48attacks against their rights and does it make them
00:01:51react?
00:01:54Well, yes, of course, they are aware of it because
00:01:57they live it in their flesh.
00:02:00We documented, in particular, the consequences of these
00:02:03anti-abortion laws. We show, for example, that this has led
00:02:07to deaths in the most serious cases. We also talk
00:02:10about women who have had to keep
00:02:13children after rape. So, of course, they
00:02:17feel it in their flesh. We focused on specific laws that either
00:02:20only concern women or target them overwhelmingly, laws that, for
00:02:23example, are only applied in
00:02:27which is really almost impossible 90, in 90% of cases, to women. So they feel it. Does it
00:02:29make them react? Yes, of course, it makes them react. Some of the people
00:02:33we filmed were people who were rather close to Republicans, who were
00:02:37also close to Christian movements,
00:02:40and who did not particularly support
00:02:44with the grief of abortion, and who themselves found themselves in
00:02:47complex situations and evolved on this issue, being confronted
00:02:51with the difficulties of situations that could be getting
00:02:55pregnant when, well, you don't have the means to educate children, or
00:02:58when you're not in good conditions to
00:03:02have them. So, many have
00:03:05been able to evolve, at least among the people we met.
00:03:09Then, at the national level, we still see that in
00:03:13the previous election, the gender issue was one of the
00:03:17inhabitants. main concerns of voters, which is a
00:03:21years of little less the case for these midterms. One of the effects of the overturning of Roe v. Wade, which
00:03:25protected the right to abortion at the federal level, is
00:03:29that maternal and infant deaths have greatly increased in the United States
00:03:33since 2022. These are stories that are regularly
00:03:36reported by the media. There is notably this death, that of Amber
00:03:40Thurman. She died from complications after a medical
00:03:43abortion. Briss Lambert, you tell her story in your film. Let's
00:03:47watch.
00:03:51I want to know what she
00:03:53looks like.
00:04:01It's when I'm here that I wonder, how, why?
00:04:05She was 28
00:04:12years old. She was
00:04:15full of life.
00:04:17Why?
00:04:19movement in Georgia's My innocent
00:04:20daughter.
00:04:29If the doctors had performed an emergency abortion,
00:04:32Amber would still be
00:04:33alive.
00:04:37Briss Lambert, these stories, these cases of women dying in
00:04:40atrocious conditions, when these
00:04:43doctors, Nobel Peace Prize winners. deaths could have been avoided, deeply affect many in the United States, and
00:04:47moreover, statistics show that contrary to what we
00:04:51optimism in believe, the majority of the American population is rather in favor of the right to
00:04:54abortion.
00:04:58Yes, well, that's the
00:05:00paradox. There have been several opinion polls conducted that
00:05:04show that, roughly speaking, more
00:05:07than 60% of Americans are against total
00:05:10abortion bans.
00:05:12They're not necessarily against limits, but in any case, they are against total
00:05:16bans. And this is a paradox we see even in conservative states,
00:05:19meaning that these figures are the
00:05:22same in Kansas, in Kentucky or in Texas,
00:05:26for example. Emilie Mitrand, would you say that resistance
00:05:30is organizing against the backlash, or on the contrary, that it's perhaps
00:05:33even an accentuation of the
00:05:36libertarian movement that says, well, broadly speaking, you haven't looked at what's happening in my
00:05:40body, how is it that there's this resistance precisely? Even in conservative
00:05:43states.
00:05:46Well, individual rights in the United States are paramount, meaning
00:05:50that it's very difficult, no matter where you are in the United States,
00:05:53to consider that the state can
00:05:56effectively regulate rights that are individual and therefore private,
00:06:02freedoms. But
00:06:05we don't have a thought that develops in a political
00:06:08way, since again, in these last elections, the candidates...
00:06:13to Congress, whether in the House or the Senate,
00:06:16do not bring this subject into
00:06:19debate. So we are still in full campaign, and
00:06:22each side is trying to rally as many votes as possible, especially those of women. Our
00:06:26correspondent in the United States, Pierry Cloran, went to meet them in front of a polling
00:06:30station in McAllen, in the conservative state of Texas, to understand what
00:06:34matters to them
00:06:35politically.
00:06:39Here in Texas, we need access to care, quality
00:06:43care, especially when it concerns reproduction and our right to
00:06:45abortion. It is very important to me. I feel very
00:06:49concerned because my husband and I have faced
00:06:51it.
00:06:55I am really very opposed to abortion. It's in the Bible, there are verses that oppose
00:06:59it, but I don't judge or condemn people who have other
00:07:02values.
00:07:05I feel like we are losing our rights. Women can no longer do
00:07:09this or that. We don't want to go back and lose our right
00:07:14to vote. I would say I am pro-life. I would like us to protect children, babies in the
00:07:18womb, because they are human beings.
00:07:20Emilie Mitran, we just heard one of those women who is worried about losing her right to vote.
00:07:24Is that a real risk today in the United States?
00:07:28No, not exactly. In any case, the right to vote is
00:07:31protected by the 19th Amendment. So it's a
00:07:35right that is in the Constitution, and
00:07:37to remove it would be very complicated, and Trump
00:07:41cannot... attack it.
00:07:44On the other hand, what he tried to do with his
00:07:47"Save America" program was to
00:07:50attack, let's say, to restrict the
00:07:54conditions of the right to vote. So, for example, for women, it would be to bring
00:07:58more identification papers regarding their
00:08:01ancestry, especially if they have changed their name because they got married. So let's say that
00:08:05it could not suppress women's right to
00:08:08vote, but it could complicate it, perhaps delay
00:08:11some registrations on electoral rolls, knowing that
00:08:15women are traditionally more politically engaged, they
00:08:18are more registered on electoral rolls than men, and they
00:08:22vote more than men. So, obviously, this kind of
00:08:25procedure can have a rather negative
00:08:29impact on their political
00:08:32and electoral activity as citizens. But we are not
00:08:36at the stage where the vote for women will be suppressed or
00:08:39can be, in any case. Briss Lambert, the... the
00:08:42conservative movement is acting through Donald Trump in the
00:08:46United States. What explains the power of this
00:08:48movement today?
00:08:51So, it's a dynamic that's quite old and that
00:08:55became very structured in the 70s and
00:08:5880s, which the Republican party at the same
00:09:02time used and maintained for its unifying
00:09:06side, meaning that in the United States,
00:09:08you have currents, well, we're talking about
00:09:13Christian nationalists, we're talking about evangelicals who have a rather conservative
00:09:17vision, both politically and from
00:09:20a religious point of view.
00:09:23And the Republican party played a
00:09:27game simply to get, to get their
00:09:30votes, and Donald Trump did it a lot. He gave positions to
00:09:34people who came from these movements simply
00:09:38to win elections. So it's gaining
00:09:41influence in the
00:09:44making of laws, and so that's what we try to show in the
00:09:47film, that there are several laws whose
00:09:50origin can be traced
00:09:54to religious movements that
00:09:56consider that the primary role, if I can
00:10:00say, of women revolves around maternity and raising
00:10:04children. Obviously, the ban on abortion is one example, but there
00:10:07are others. Emilie Mitrand, paradoxically, in these midterms, there's a record
00:10:11number of women running. How is
00:10:13that explained?
00:10:15Uh, I think in the United States there's
00:10:18a more natural tendency to
00:10:22open up the political field. We are very... uh, open
00:10:26at least on representation. It's a real
00:10:29subject, no matter the field. Uh, and there, on the Democratic
00:10:33side, there are a lot of women, about
00:10:36uh, 40% of my memory are
00:10:39Democratic candidates, they are female candidates.
00:10:43And it's a very good thing. We see in
00:10:46many states, uh, also women from
00:10:50minority groups, uh, so in Alaska, in Minnesota, we might have
00:10:54the first indigenous women, at least from
00:10:57the First Nations, indigenous
00:11:01nations, accessing a position
00:11:03in the Senate or in the House of Representatives. So it's
00:11:07very important for voters in the United States
00:11:11to take into account the diversity of the country. Of course, there are
00:11:15identity groups and fundamentally
00:11:18racist ones, but the country was built on this, on
00:11:21this notion of a melting pot as it was used a few years ago.
00:11:25And it's still something that we put forward,
00:11:29uh, including on the diversity of candidates
00:11:32and female candidates. And so, these women who
00:11:35are today very well represented in the midterms
00:11:38of 2026, and in a record way, we will know more
00:11:42in any case on Tuesday, November 3rd, at the time of the midterm elections. Thank you both,
00:11:46Emilie Mitrand and Briss Lambert, for participating in this
00:11:49program, and thank you for watching. We will see you
00:11:53very soon on France 24.
00:12:25accused after having an abortion after a rape, her
00:12:28trial will mark a turning point in the fight for abortion
00:12:31rights here in France, and that's what the
00:12:35film "L'affaire Marie Claire" tells, with notably Cécile de France. Hello
00:12:39Cécile, thank you very much for being with us. So you play Michelle
00:12:42Chevalier, Marie Claire Chevalier's mother. This trial took place in
00:12:461972, it made a strong impression, but we're going
00:12:50to refresh memories a bit. Who was
00:12:53Marie-Claire Chevalier and what was she accused of at the time? So, as you
00:12:57said, she was raped and then she was denounced by her
00:13:00rapist himself. You should know that we were in a case
00:13:04of absolute social cruelty
00:13:07because at the time, poor women were
00:13:11condemned to have abortions clandestinely, while rich women could
00:13:14go to England or Switzerland, and well, those who didn't have the means
00:13:17uh risked their lives, ultimately, because that's what
00:13:21clandestine abortion is about. Uh,
00:13:24she and her mother and the two other women who helped with that
00:13:28clandestine abortion were
00:14:29penalty, 5 years in prison for you. Gisèle found in Michel an
00:14:32admirable woman, who was a courageous mother, we could
00:14:36say, because, well, she had had her first two, she had had Marie
00:14:39Claire, then her two daughters, the two men had abandoned her.
00:14:43So she was without money, but she was irreproachable.
00:14:46She was, uh, morally, she was
00:14:49unassailable. And she decides to embark Michel because
00:14:53Michel was also a very cultured
00:14:55person, very curious, also a little committed, and she
00:14:59decides to, to involve her in to carry her through
00:15:02this, this political trial. She will bring
00:15:05in
00:15:08It is both a political trial but also
00:15:12philosophical, legal,
00:15:15uh, and social as well. So, and she wanted
00:15:18to address public opinion beyond the magistrates' heads to
00:15:21shake consciences and move society. And that forced
00:15:25the magistrates to to modify, to
00:15:29modify the law three years later with Simone
00:15:32Veil's law, which decriminalized abortion. Yes,
00:15:36because what the film shows very well, I think, and which can
00:15:39be chilling because, in fact, it wasn't that long ago, is that this
00:15:43France of the 1970s was
00:15:46extremely divided as to the possibility
00:15:49for women to dispose of their bodies. That's also what this
00:15:53film wants to show, this trial. Gisèle Halimi wanted
00:15:56to make of it, and Michelle was aware of it, the
00:16:00disappearance of these 1920 laws that had
00:16:03appeared after the First World War to repopulate France.
00:16:07So it was an oppressive law and it was
00:16:10anachronistic, ultimately, it was misogynistic too, and
00:16:14which was an injustice, and
00:16:17to have found these women who had the courage and dignity to
00:16:21speak of their suffering, of their
00:16:24most intimate anger, because it was difficult at the time to
00:16:27talk about intimate things like that, of uteruses, of
00:16:31bleeding. You have to know that it was absolutely taboo, and so we
00:16:35really thank them, and for me it's a way also... to pay homage to all
00:16:39these women and to remind that it was a very
00:16:42painful struggle. They were stigmatized afterwards too. Marie
00:16:46Claire had to change her first name.
00:16:48Uh, fortunately, she had a daughter, Jennifer, who
00:16:52was kind enough to come see us on set because she thought she
00:16:56had become sterile, with that clandestine abortion. So
00:17:36character, Michelle Chevalier, as you said, is a humble
00:17:39RATP employee. She raises her three daughters alone because her husband
00:17:43left without a trace. We really feel she is ready
00:17:47to do anything to defend her children. But at first, it's true that we
00:17:51feel she doesn't want to make too many waves, as you said, because she is very discreet. How does
00:17:55Gisèle Halimi manage to convince her to go for a strategy
00:17:58that is extremely risky? She risks 5 years in prison, her children being placed in foster care,
00:18:04for her to conceive. Well, it's...
00:18:07also the fact that I think Gisèle never made her
00:18:10feel inferior. It was okay, she didn't
00:18:14have the same access to education as
00:18:17Gisèle, who herself paid for it
00:18:22her mother's love, who didn't already love her because
00:18:25being born a girl was already a curse. They took, they
00:18:29took three weeks, I think, to announce her birth because they wanted a
00:18:32boy, and moreover, the film really tells
00:18:36well why Gisèle became this committed
00:18:39woman. It was to explain to the world and to herself
00:18:42uh this, this mother who had
00:18:45her life stolen and who didn't have access to education. And
00:18:49Michelle, who was very, very quick-
00:18:52witted, understood in fact, understood the
00:18:55mission, the stakes. Yes, she
00:18:59understood. They trusted each other. It was
00:19:02complicated because there was a betrayal at one point. It's very well
00:19:05told in the film.
00:19:10So there's sorority, there's
00:19:14mutual aid, because in fact all these women did not
00:19:18judge each other, they did their best for
00:19:21Marie-Claire in their heart and conscience, uh, and
00:19:25as best as they could. And that was
00:19:28very powerful for us actresses. Uh, I
00:19:31think of Florence Loiret Caille and Sarah Suco
00:19:35and Saulchetride, we were all...
00:19:37four in the dock, and to play these women who
00:19:41have who who helped each other, who were really in
00:19:44an exemplary solidarity, it was
00:19:47very intense for us. So it's true that the name of Gisèle Halimi, well, it carries
00:19:51everything along, it's the one that remained the most known after this
00:19:55trial, but it was important to you to
00:19:58perhaps pay homage or do justice to the role that
00:20:02Michelle Chevalier played in this trial, yes, yes.
00:20:05It's also the desire of Ivo and
00:20:07the directors that there should not be an idealization
00:20:10and an idolatry of Gisèle. It's not a
00:20:14biopic, it's not that at all, it's
00:20:17all these women led by
00:20:20the one who decided to be driven by, well,
00:20:24by her intelligence, her her hope too, her
00:20:29her, and her dream, it's a, it's a dream
00:20:32that she, she believed that it would work, and it
00:20:36worked, by the way. Yes, even if there were many obstacles, yes, it was
00:20:40really a fierce struggle,
00:20:43a fierce struggle. It was very well documented.
00:20:46I don't know, to reread. I know that the plea of...
00:20:50those are the exact words that were used. How did you
00:20:53work to put yourself in the shoes of Michelle Chevalier?
00:20:57Well, I was lucky enough to be able to rely
00:21:01on the testimonies of Gisèle Halimi who talks a lot about Michelle
00:21:05Chevalier in her books. And then there is notably
00:21:08an interview of Marie Claire uh which was
00:21:12filmed, I don't know, in the 2000s perhaps, or the 90s,
00:21:15where she talks about her mother, she talks about her journey,
00:21:19she talks about... and so I I really was able
00:21:22to draw inspiration from documentation and
00:21:26and from writings and interviews, so that's quite
00:21:29wonderful. After that, it's not a documentary either. Uh,
00:21:33there were artistic and dramaturgical choices made
00:21:36as well. We are here to tell a historical fact, but we
00:21:40are above all here to, well, and
00:21:43and to invite the viewer to identify with these women.
00:21:46Unfortunately, the regression of abortion rights present in many
00:21:50places in the world, the United States, Poland closer to
00:21:54us, this story inevitably resonates with our current
00:21:57time. Is that also what made you want to accept this
00:22:01role, this resonance? Well, it's true that it also gives meaning
00:22:05to why make a film on this subject, to recall the
00:22:08facts, to recall the arduous journey that was lived in their
00:22:12flesh by women who, even if it was a
00:22:16victory for women, fell into oblivion,
00:22:20were
00:22:32and Michelle Chevalier's family. They
00:22:36talked about it very little, they didn't talk about it at
00:22:39all. Uh, the descendants learned what had
00:22:43happened on TV, actually. They weren't proud of it at
00:22:46all. It was so painful,
00:22:50so traumatizing for her, who was so modest,
00:22:52that it's something they wanted to put aside, to keep silent about, yes, really, even though
00:22:56they transformed the lives of so many women thanks to their struggle, yes, absolutely. The
00:23:00director Lauriane Escafre says she would like this film to speak to 15 to 30
00:23:04year olds as well, who probably don't know
00:23:08about this trial. Do you also hope it reaches the public? Uh, yes, yes, absolutely. It's true that I am in
00:23:11a generation where I see that, well, young people are also engaged and
00:23:15also aware of many things. That's strong and
00:23:19interesting. And then the generation above who
00:23:22experienced everything we talk about in the film. So I have
00:23:25both points of view which are really
00:23:28interesting, and I think this film brings together these three
00:23:32generations and reminds us of what happened in the past.
00:23:36history and that we must remember it in the battles to
00:29:14It's hard to imagine the scale of the devastation of this city of 200,000
00:29:20This people suffers from climate change, five
00:29:24drought.
00:29:29be a counter offensive.
00:29:47It is a total falsification,
00:29:51a total theft of your votes.
00:29:55It was two years ago, the president of Georgia
00:29:58accused the ruling party, the Georgian
00:30:01Dream, of having used Russian methods to
00:30:04win the legislative elections. Many
00:30:07countries, including France, had called for an international inquiry into
00:30:10possible irregularities, but the results had been
00:30:14maintained. And this election had triggered two vast
00:30:17demonstrations which have now become the longest protest
00:30:22history. Every week,
00:30:25several hundred people gather to protest with a
00:30:28mobilization.