Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00from the investigator, right? The investigator is different because he is theoretically
00:00:04biased towards that in the sense
00:00:07that he is the one who then drafts the indictment articles.
00:00:11How can he indict and then not be sure about the evidence?
00:00:15Because if the perspective is from the investigator, we cannot
00:00:18trust it. If the
00:00:21Well, the victim here is the one who perspective is from the public prosecutor, because
00:00:22is presented, who in this case, we are in opposition,
00:00:24is awaited by the public, who we are on opposite sides. Therefore, there must be an independent third party
00:00:27to test that diploma. Okay. Okay.
00:00:31Later,
00:00:33it will show what is
00:00:35something that is doubted because the item has not been presented
00:00:38all this time. What will happen later,
00:00:42will your client really be ready
00:00:45to undergo his legal process? Why are you constantly directing it there?
00:00:49I'm confused.
00:00:52This you... oh
00:00:55no,
00:00:56the diploma that is no. First, you
00:01:00said, right, whether you are ready to be punished, or I have already
00:01:04said that our client is innocent. Our client
00:01:08has no single article that can be applied to
00:01:11them because they work, they research based on
00:01:14public interest. Second, they did not slander
00:01:18because whether the diploma is original or not, until now, it's still
00:01:21questionable. They cannot be charged under the ITE Law
00:01:24because there is no such thing as physical document testing.
00:01:28pengujian dokumen fis.
00:01:36forensic science? It is a science
00:02:00The proof in the trial is one moment,
00:02:03right? One eh, screen only from the entire
00:02:06trial process. Of course, we will see the quality
00:02:10of the evidence, because if you tell a story, you can
00:02:13just tell ABC and so on and so forth,
00:02:16but later we will cross-check with other witnesses and
00:02:20other evidence or exhibits.
00:02:23two statements are From there, we will then confirm
00:02:25whether Mr. Joko's story is true or not. Of course,
00:02:29yes... our client, he has prepared a story
00:02:33about studying at Uge, about this and that and so on and so forth,
00:02:36even though we caught an oddity, for example, about the
00:02:40sequence of time between when he graduated from college,
00:02:44then the proof or statement then he went to Aceh, then he came back and gave birth
00:02:47to Gibran and so on. That itself doesn't match,
00:02:50the timing, even though it came from eh, Jokowi's own
00:02:54YouTube, right? Thank you very much for the information this morning.
00:02:58Well, there you go. Yes, Jason, regarding
00:03:02the statement from Roy Suryo's legal team and also Dr. Tiva, they
00:03:05said that Roy Suryo's side or camp
00:03:09still believes that the diploma
00:03:12or experience that Jokowi will later present
00:03:16is something that is not necessarily
00:03:19convincing, right? And
00:03:22at this moment, we hear
00:03:26that the 7th President of the Republic of Indonesia
00:03:31earlier, one important point also has arrived at the East Jakarta District Court. We are currently
00:03:35showing you
00:03:39what the situation is like. Well,
00:03:41on the screen, Jason, it's already visible
00:03:45that there's a crowd of Jokowi supporters from
00:03:48various groups, right? There are also
00:03:52from Projo, and they are already waiting in front of
00:03:56the gate or the main area of the District Court
00:04:00in East Jakarta. Besides that, we, the media crew, are still
00:04:03waiting to see if we can get
00:04:07a statement or ask Jokowi himself.
00:04:11Well, the situation is
00:04:14quite safe.
00:04:16amanan
00:04:19Mr. Jokowi,
00:04:20Mr. Jokowi, we
00:04:23are trying, we are trying to ask, Mr.
00:04:27Jokowi.
00:05:01Mr. Jokowi, how are the preparations for the diploma today, sir?
00:05:05All good,
00:05:07be? Will all good.
00:05:12Sir, a little bit, sir, may I go there, sir? Yes, they will listen later.
00:05:16They will listen later. Later, when they bring
00:05:19it down.
00:05:29All right, please.
00:06:23Still going up,
00:06:23bro.
00:06:28The phone was cut off. Viewers,
00:06:31we just witnessed the arrival of the 7th President
00:06:35of the Republic of Indonesia, Joko Widodo, who arrived at the East
00:06:38Jakarta District Court. According to
00:06:41the SIPP, or the schedule listed in
00:06:45the SIPP, the trial against the defendant Roh Suryo
00:06:49will start at 09:00 AM Western Indonesia Time.
00:06:52And later, the second session will be held at 2:00 PM Western Indonesia
00:06:55Time with defendant Dr. Tiva.
00:06:59And later, the 7th President of the Republic of Indonesia, Joko Widodo,
00:07:02will be a witness for two different trial agendas.
00:07:06Viewers, and if we look here, indeed,
00:07:10all supporters, both from both sides, both from
00:07:14Roy Suryo's camp and also from Joko
00:07:17Widodo's camp, have indeed gathered and crowded the area
00:07:21of the East Jakarta District Court. Viewers, therefore,
00:07:24security is indeed tightened, even with three rings already prepared,
00:07:28viewers, because today's agenda is that the 7th President
00:07:32of the Republic of Indonesia, Joko Widodo, will give
00:07:35his statement as a witness in this trial,
00:07:38viewers. And the question is, indeed, later,
00:07:42will Joko Widodo bring his original diploma?
00:07:45Because according to circulating information, later, Jokowi
00:07:49will bring his original diploma and
00:07:52show it to the judge,
00:07:55viewers. And later, the
00:07:58trial proceedings will also be conducted openly,
00:08:02viewers. And if we look
00:08:06until now, indeed,
00:08:09from the statement also already delivered by Roy Suryo's camp,
00:08:13where earlier, Roy Suryo's legal counsel Refle Harun
00:08:16stated that this trial is expected
00:08:20to truly be a confirmation of all the polemics that
00:08:24have been rolling, viewers. Where his side itself earlier already
00:08:27stated that they prepared approximately 500
00:08:31questions, and it is hoped that this trial will not
00:08:34have time limitations so that then
00:08:38the proof can be carried out more completely and
00:08:40comprehensively. And
00:08:44conveyed by Roy Suryo's legal counsel Refle Harun
00:08:47stated that there is no single
00:08:50article that can be applied
00:08:53to his client, including articles on defamation
00:08:56and also slander related to the diploma of the 7th President
00:08:59of the Republic of Indonesia.
00:09:16And viewers, to discuss the presence of Joko Widodo
00:09:19as a witness in this trial, we will discuss it with
00:09:23criminal law expert Prof. Hipnu Nugroho via virtual connection.
00:09:27Good morning, Prof. Hipnu. Good
00:09:30morning, sir. Thank you for
00:09:34Hipnu, let's get straight to it. How important is the presence of Joko Widodo as
00:09:38a witness this time for him to be able to
00:09:41provide or then find proof in this trial?
00:09:44Yes, in the concept
00:09:48of law, the presence as a victim, as
00:09:51a complainant, is very,
00:09:55very important. Because in a trial,
00:09:58there are four indicators: one, the existence of a defense,
00:10:02which is currently ongoing; then, a public hearing
00:10:05to listen; then, eh, proof;
00:10:08and finally, independence, the independence
00:10:12of a trial. Well, as a public hearing
00:10:15for the victim, it is where the victim who
00:10:19feels, who makes the report,
00:10:22who makes the complaint, must
00:10:25be present to provide an explanation
00:10:28to what extent regarding the feelings, regarding
00:10:32the condition of the victim, because in a legal context, there are four
00:10:35pillars, sir. One, there is the act,
00:10:39there is the perpetrator, there is the criminal sanction,
00:10:43and there is the victim.
00:10:49is awaited by the court to at least
00:10:52clarify, to at least give later
00:10:55with the statements of the defendant, to confront with other
00:10:59witnesses. Thus, as the concept of justice now
00:11:02is a concept of justice that seeks material truth,
00:11:06the real truth about what the object
00:11:10that is currently being examined is, sir. Okay, Prof. Hipnu,
00:11:13is Joko Widodo's position currently as the complainant or, as
00:11:17you said earlier, as the victim? This means that when he gives a statement,
00:11:21its weight becomes heavier, right,
00:11:24for... to then be able to fight or confront what
00:11:28has been conveyed by the defendant's side all
00:11:31this time? Yes, if we look at a concept
00:11:35of proof in a new paradigm
00:11:38of evidence, there is no weight, but
00:11:42it has the same qualification of evidence, it has the same
00:11:45evidence as other witnesses,
00:11:48only because this is a form of complaint,
00:11:52as a form of certainty, as a form of classification, as
00:11:56a form of earnestness, because if we look at
00:11:59an old criminal procedure code, the victim who reports
00:12:03is actually the first one, the first one who must be examined,
00:12:07right? Because with the first examination, it's to ask whether to proceed
00:12:11or not, whether there are alternatives or not? This is what we
00:12:14see in the first criminal procedure code, but with the new criminal procedure code
00:12:17now, it's not like that, all evidence is handed over
00:12:21to the public prosecutor, that's if we look at article 160, therefore...
00:12:25That was in the proof yesterday, the question was why hadn't Mr. Jokowi attended? That's
00:12:29part of the prosecutor's strategy for when to present him, of course, with
00:12:31the permission of the head of the court. Therefore, with the panel of judges who asked
00:12:35when he would be presented
00:12:39by the legal counsel, he is presented today
00:12:43as a form of clarification, as a form of
00:12:45confrontation against what has been accused
00:12:49all this time, including the evidence presented
00:12:52by the counsel. Hmm. Prof. Ibnu, it is also said
00:12:56that later, Joko Widodo will show
00:13:00his diploma in front of the judge when there is indeed
00:13:03physical evidence of the diploma that has been brought.
00:13:07How do you analyze this? Will it then immediately
00:13:11break the accusations that have been circulating in
00:13:15the court?
00:13:18Yes, if it is a complaint
00:13:21regarding feelings, then the proof... is quite
00:13:25personal proof, personal proof regarding the feelings of
00:13:29the victim, but since the accusation is
00:13:32defamation and slander, slander
00:13:35is about whether a situation is true or not true about an
00:13:39item, then regarding the item, the diploma,
00:13:42it is necessary to show
00:13:45it. Well, that's the question. Well, it's necessary
00:13:49to show it, there will be a lot of commotion later, will there be
00:13:52a form of testing? Well, that depends
00:13:55on the judge, because in the current judicial concept,
00:13:59there is a paradigm shift, the judge is
00:14:02active, but provides equal opportunity,
00:14:06legally known as adversarial,
00:14:08adversarial in proving. Well, the question
00:14:12is, will the legal counsel request
00:14:15a test, and will the public
00:14:18prosecutor or the panel of judges agree? We will see. But at
00:14:22least, as a form of slander,
00:14:25an opportunity is given to prove the object that caused
00:14:29the slander. Well, this is where the excitement will be, sir.
00:14:32Will it be granted or not, will an opportunity be given
00:14:36or not? If it's about statements, I have no problem. Later,
00:14:39Mr. Jokowi will give a statement, it will be clarified, it will be refuted, sir,
00:14:43but when it comes to the diploma, is it enough
00:14:46to just show it, or does there have to be a
00:14:49test of the diploma? Because all this time, the counsel
00:14:53has stated that the diploma... is actually not the original diploma received
00:14:57at the time, but a photocopy in the court.
00:15:00Well, this is what will create a situation where the court will later
00:15:04find a middle ground, providing a facility, giving equal
00:15:08opportunity to prove the diploma.
00:15:11Yes, Prof. Hipnu, speaking of giving a statement,
00:15:15it's possible that later, if the legal team
00:15:19of the defendant wants to test what Jokowi
00:15:22has stated as a witness, it's possible. Questions related to
00:15:26his educational background, the process of issuing his diploma, and
00:15:30his academic documents. Are questions like
00:15:34these required to be delivered and explained in detail
00:15:37by Joko Widodo?
00:15:41Well, actually, if we look at it as a form of
00:15:45a prologue to obtaining a diploma, right?
00:15:48That's why later, the Panel
00:15:51of Judges also has to be skillful in seeing whether
00:15:55this is relevant or not, right? So, if
00:15:59it's indeed to convince, I think Mr. Jokowi must
00:16:03convince the public, convince the
00:16:06defendant about the chronology until his diploma
00:16:09and family are legitimate. Because no matter what, the victim
00:16:13who is now sleeping must prove that his diploma
00:16:16was obtained legitimately with the existing stages
00:16:20until the diploma was issued, right? It has to be like that. But
00:16:23the question is later how the legal counsel, because in a
00:16:27court's view, it's always contradictory. If the legal counsel
00:16:31thinks objectively about the law, but
00:16:34subjectively about their interests, but the public prosecutor is
00:16:37objectively representing the state, subjectively about the law, subjectively representing
00:16:41the state, objectively about the law, the judge is objectively about the law,
00:16:45objectively about the case. That's it. Later, the moderator as
00:16:48the panel will be there to see if what is explained
00:16:52is relevant, because what is being asked is about whether it's original or not
00:16:55regarding the slander earlier, right? That's it, sir.
00:16:59Prof. Ibnu, let's move on to another topic. So, for today's agenda,
00:17:02the 7th President of the Republic of Indonesia will be present in
00:17:06two trials. So, the trial for Roy Suryo and also
00:17:09the trial for Dr. Tiva. Is it possible for him to be a witness
00:17:13for two trials simultaneously at the same
00:17:16time? Well, if we look at
00:17:19the mechanism of trials, it is indeed
00:17:23rarely done, rarely done, rarely done
00:17:26because the indictments are different between
00:17:30Tifa and Mr. Roy Suryo, and the case numbers
00:17:33are different. But as a form of modern justice,
00:17:38and then as a form of quick
00:17:41principle, simple, low-cost,
00:17:45it is possible. So the key is later with the panel of judges.
00:17:48If the panel of judges states that the judges are the same, perhaps,
00:17:52it can be done. Oh, everything is the same, the prosecutor is the same,
00:17:56the legal counsel also has similarities, it can
00:17:59happen. This is a form of quick principle, because the object being dealt with is
00:18:03the same regarding the diploma, right? It's about feelings.
00:18:07Feelings related to slander, defamation.
00:18:10This is an alternative to various trials
00:18:14being combined into one as a statement as a form of quick
00:18:17and simple principle. Well, that's why later, at least,
00:18:21the panel will also ask the legal counsel if this can be combined. Well,
00:18:25that's the question. Oh, if the legal counsel says, "Oh, no, it must
00:18:28be one by one," I think this is quite difficult. Similarly, the public
00:18:32prosecutor, can they? If the public prosecutor is okay with the quick principle because it represents the same
00:18:35interest. But the legal counsel
00:18:37is the key. Can it be combined or not, one by one or
00:18:41not, right? That's what I think needs
00:18:44to be anticipated by the panel. If they say no, then inevitably,
00:18:48it has to be one by one because the case numbers are different, the subjects of the suspects are also
00:18:52different, right? But Mr. Jokowi's wish is
00:18:55one, which in a legal context is also a problem because as a quick,
00:18:58simple principle, he only provides a statement on the same object,
00:19:01but the subjects of each suspect, the defendants, are different,
00:19:05right, sir? Okay, later I will
00:19:07ask Prof. Hipnu again when Joko Widodo has given
00:19:11his statement in Roy Suryo's trial, because this is
00:19:14the first one. Now, can the statement that has been given
00:19:17be used again to become evidence in
00:19:20Dr. Tiva's trial? How will this mechanism work? We will
00:19:24discuss it again after the following break, viewers. Stay with us on Breaking News Metro
00:19:28TV.
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00:21:20Moments before the arrival of the 7th President of the Republic of Indonesia, Joko Widodo,
00:21:23who is present as a witness in the trial of Roy Suryo and also
00:21:27Dr. Tiva today at the East Jakarta District Court, where
00:21:31Joko Widodo arrived around
00:21:348:45 AM Western Indonesia Time and was immediately escorted
00:21:38to enter the courtroom because,
00:21:41according to information, the trial will
00:21:45start at 09:00 AM Western Indonesia
00:21:48Time. Of course, security has also been in place
00:21:52since morning. There are thousands of supporters
00:21:55who have also crowded the court area, both
00:21:59supporters of Joko Widodo and supporters of
00:22:03Rohisuryo. And later, viewers,
00:22:06the agenda is that Joko Widodo will act as
00:22:10a witness and is expected to provide information
00:22:13related to the polemic of the fake diploma that
00:22:16has been directed at him all this time. We will
00:22:20return to discuss the presence of Joko
00:22:23Widodo as a witness in this trial. We rejoin
00:22:27Prof. Hipnu. Prof., let's continue the dialogue. My question
00:22:31earlier was, can the statements
00:22:34already given in Roy Suryo's trial be used again,
00:22:38can they be delivered again
00:22:41to Dr. Tiva's trial or the afternoon agenda, or
00:22:44does there have to be a different record or a different mechanism,
00:22:48Prof.?
00:22:50Yes, this is how it is, sir. If we look at a
00:22:54trial, there is one subject
00:22:57witness, there is one. Thus,
00:23:00if we look at it as a form of
00:23:03alternative trial with two indictments, there are two
00:23:06indictments, there are two case numbers, right?
00:23:10If we talk about ideal,
00:23:13given, because a statement
00:23:15evolves, it
00:23:18evolves regarding... the object that is being examined,
00:23:22it evolves regarding the process of obtaining
00:23:25the diploma, it evolves regarding the feelings that
00:23:28are possible for the complainant, namely Mr. Jokowi. This is something
00:23:32different, so it seems not common, right,
00:23:36if it's separate? But that's in the usual
00:23:39practice, but if, as I said earlier, there is an
00:23:42agreement, the key is whether the legal counsel
00:23:46and the suspect are willing for the statement, what has been...
00:23:50delivered in front of Mr. Tiva
00:23:53to be the same as Jokowi, to be the same as
00:23:56whether or vice versa. It depends, because as I said
00:24:00earlier, our justice system is
00:24:03adversarial,
00:24:05meaning the judge is active in providing equal
00:24:08opportunity. Well, the question is, later, will the public
00:24:11prosecutor and legal counsel accept that the statement that has been given
00:24:15will be delivered in another case number or vice
00:24:18versa? That will be the agreement
00:24:22later, and that's where I think the panel of judges will decide
00:24:26whether to include it or not, because in a concept, since
00:24:29the legal subjects are different, the case numbers are different, it also has to be different,
00:24:33even though the statement will be the same, but at least he will be present to give
00:24:37a statement about the same object, right, sir?
00:24:40Yes, Prof. Ibnu, now I will
00:24:43invite us to flash back again. If I read this again,
00:24:47previously, the National Police Criminal Investigation Department had already conducted
00:24:51forensic examination results that concluded that at that time,
00:24:54Jokowi's diploma was actually an original
00:24:58diploma. If this has been revealed, how strong is the position
00:25:01of the forensic laboratory examination results to then be presented
00:25:05in court?
00:25:09Yes, if we look at a document,
00:25:12we must think that a document is considered
00:25:16true unless proven otherwise. And
00:25:20that is all that we see in a document. Well, the question
00:25:23yesterday was the document results that
00:25:27had been carried out by the forensics department, it is valid
00:25:30and has strong legal force. The question
00:25:34now is, the opposing party is given the opportunity
00:25:37to state that the document is not valid. Thus,
00:25:40as a concept of balance,
00:25:43there must be something, it must be based
00:25:46on a judgment from the public prosecutor and a judgment from the legal
00:25:50counsel. That opportunity is given in a trial. Later, from
00:25:53that document, what will the result
00:25:57A or B be used? Later, the panel will
00:26:01judge, or will both turn out to be the same? But at
00:26:04least, the opportunity given to the legal counsel, as a representative,
00:26:08will surely take
00:26:11actions to provide a test.
00:26:15The question is whether that opportunity will be granted or not. If
00:26:18not, then it's over. But if it is, the case will be delayed
00:26:22again. This is what will cause a problem in the trial. But
00:26:26the question later will be, "Sir, this is not a
00:26:29question of testing documents, is it? This is a question
00:26:33of a case about defamation, about
00:26:36slander, why does it go to document testing?" Well, that's
00:26:40where the dialogue in a trial must be clear,
00:26:43there must be an agreement that this is enough to be done like that,
00:26:46or there is a mutual desire
00:26:50to prove it. That's what makes it interesting in this
00:26:53trial, sir, right? Okay, Prof. Hipnu, let's say
00:26:57Joko Widodo brings said to be
00:27:01the original diploma. But then Roy Suryo's side,
00:27:04if they have a counter-analysis, what is the legal mechanism
00:27:08to then test this in court,
00:27:11right? Yes, in the
00:27:14formal law of criminal procedure, that
00:27:18auxiliary science, forensic science, whether it is
00:27:21digital forensics, medical forensics, language
00:27:25forensic is to back up
00:27:28in a proof, so the law will not move
00:27:32without supporting sciences, auxiliary sciences,
00:27:35forensic science. What is
00:27:39used for the benefit of justice, in the context
00:27:42of digital forensics or its relation to forensic
00:27:46diplomas, judges, judges, public
00:27:49prosecutors, legal advisors do not understand
00:27:52forensics, that's where the judge will see that
00:27:56the statement given by the forensic expert, whether it is
00:28:00original or not with the statement? The
00:28:03question is free, it's because it's an expert statement, the judge assesses
00:28:07it freely, it can be used, it can't, that's it, man,
00:28:10unlike transactions, witnesses are binding, because it concerns what they
00:28:14see, hear, experience, forensics is not, now the question is
00:28:18judges are law graduates, what do they know about forensics, prosecutors are also law
00:28:21graduates, what do they know about forensics, legal advisors, legal advisors
00:28:25are also law graduates, well, that's what we see in a
00:28:28proof, the expert's statement has a free value, the judge can...
00:28:32use it or not, that's where the panel of judges can interpret oh
00:28:36I'll use this with reasons ABC oh I won't use this with
00:28:39reasons ABC that's roughly it Mr. hm okay Prof Hipnu
00:28:43later we will both see how
00:28:47delivered by Joko Widodo with what he said was
00:28:50his original diploma and how this will unfold we will still monitor it
00:28:54in the future thank you Prof Hipnugroho criminal law expert
00:28:57has joined us on this breaking news Metro TV
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00:29:37balanced the coffee is delicious soft the aren aroma
00:29:40b just like me get more at golda coffee aren
00:29:44late new from wingswood do you know
00:29:47three things for sure sympathy definitely smooth 5G
00:29:50signal video call via 5G signal
00:29:54definitely smooth makes the residents solid to
00:29:57win definitely comfortable the city definitely
00:30:01comfortable with rollo with quota leftover quota doesn't know
00:30:04old dates definitely for you entertainment, if
00:30:07it's guided, there are definitely many entertainment choices, yes
00:30:10that's because entertainment from sympathy is definitely for you,
00:30:25viewers, to monitor the current situation, we rejoin metro TV
00:30:28journalist Rona Marina, good morning, Rona, joining
00:30:31again, has the trial participants
00:30:35arrived and are there any signs the trial will
00:30:37begin?
00:30:43Yes, Jason, right now it's almost 9:00 AM
00:30:47or it will soon be 9:00 AM Western Indonesia Time,
00:30:50where the trial for the defendant Roy Suryo and also
00:30:54presenting the witness, former President of the Republic of Indonesia
00:30:57Jokowi and his aide Syarif Fitri.