Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00Mr. President and a number of ministers and
00:00:03a number of politicians, so I don't know yet whether the vice
00:00:06president was also wiretapped or
00:00:08not.
00:00:11Mr. Adi, Vice President Gibran is not on the list of wiretapped people. What is your political
00:00:15reading? Well, first of all, of course, we have to wait for the
00:00:19official release list, which was revealed by the Criminal Investigation Unit, of course,
00:00:22because what is circulating on social media is assumptive
00:00:26and speculative. Of course, I also hope that it doesn't lead to
00:00:30wild predictions. At least there is already a list
00:00:34of who is on the wiretapped list, Silvia,
00:00:37so that there are no attempts to pit people against each other. Who then
00:00:41should not be? And second, Yusril's statement is interesting.
00:00:44Wallahu alam, there is a follow-up. Wallahu alam. So
00:00:48only God and Allah know everything. If
00:00:53wiretap Mr. Yusril were to continue, only God and the perpetrators would know the motive.
00:00:56Isn't that it? This is a diplomatic statement from someone like Mr. Prabowo. He probably
00:01:00knows a lot, but he doesn't seem to want to preempt the investigation that
00:01:04is currently being developed. So in this context, but isn't it strange if
00:01:08the president is wiretapped, the chairman of a political party is wiretapped, a member of Commission
00:01:113 of the DPR is wiretapped, but the vice president escapes?
00:01:15Well, if you ask ordinary people like farmers like me, it's a bit
00:01:18strange, Silvia, because if we want to talk about public officials from
00:01:22top to bottom, the president, vice president, all officials
00:01:26or parties, ministers, that's how the story goes. Even if you want
00:01:30all in, the chairmen of all parties,
00:01:33all businessmen, even the 26-hour Madura stall owner
00:01:36should also be wiretapped, if that's the case, or
00:01:40activists for democracy, media friends, maybe Silvia is also
00:01:43wiretapped, be careful, especially since her
00:01:47phone is smart. That's what I think
00:01:50is a bit strange because no matter what, in the midst of
00:01:54our quite open democracy, things like this
00:01:57will be very easy to access, Silvia. Therefore,
00:02:00our society now doesn't need to be experts to see something
00:02:04odd. If it's not applied to all public
00:02:08officials in this country, there must be something, there
00:02:11is something. That's what needs to be revealed by the investigation
00:02:14carried out by the Criminal Investigation Unit, of course.
00:02:18If we look from the outside, it will be assumptive,
00:02:21predictive, things that need to be accounted for,
00:02:25right? But if it has gone through an investigation
00:02:28process, it will be clearly detailed
00:02:32what is the meaning related to things
00:02:35that are wiretapped and things that are not wiretapped. Maybe there are
00:02:39many wiretapped people, Silvia, who are not like in Metro TV, whose numbers
00:02:42might only be 30 or 40. Maybe there are many, but
00:02:46they are not exposed. That's the importance of actually listing
00:02:50and if possible, openly upgrading who is actually wiretapped in that context. Okay, before
00:02:53or after Mr.
00:02:57Yusril's statement
00:03:00or wallahu alam, like that, right? But then
00:03:03the next day, it was confirmed that there were indications leading
00:03:07to treason, as we heard together in the first
00:03:10segment. Mr. Kurnia, there is actually a follow-up when Coordinating Minister
00:03:13Yusril said that the motive for this wiretapping was aimed at a party
00:03:18The highest leader in this country, the president, as that wanted the Prabowo through a post on his diction used to be to paralyze
00:03:22sir, because what we hear is that more the president. But of course, this is still being investigated further, right? But
00:03:25the question is, does the palace already know exactly
00:03:28who is the party that wants to paralyze this president?
00:03:32Yes, regarding who
00:03:35wants to paralyze the government, that is what
00:03:39is being investigated, and factually, today there are already four people
00:03:43as suspects, suspects for
00:03:47One person, who was wiretapped, when it was the articles charged by the National Police's Criminal Investigation Unit, and then
00:03:50Mr. Prasetyo Hadi and also
00:03:54Coordinating Minister Yusril stated that there were indications
00:03:57leading to Article 19.
00:04:04Ms. Silvia, in one of the elements of Article
00:04:071991 of the Criminal Code is the act
00:04:10of a person who causes the president and
00:04:13or vice president to be unable to run
00:04:16the government. Of course, I want to draw
00:04:19a red thread in the context of this illegal wiretapping
00:04:22being carried out for a period of 1 year, and
00:04:26the object of this illegal wiretapping is the president, as
00:04:29explained technically
00:04:32how it works, the
00:04:35voice recordings, the messages, are known. Who called,
00:04:38who was called, the time is
00:04:41clear. Of course, if the conversations are at the level of the President of the Republic
00:04:45of Indonesia, those conversations are certainly strategic,
00:04:49important, secret. Therefore, it is not
00:04:52impossible that the information obtained contains
00:04:55very important conversations, and
00:04:58those conversations, if known by many
00:05:03is needed for communication parties, have the potential to disrupt the stability
00:05:06of the government. Therefore, what Mr. Prasetyo Hadi
00:05:10and Mr. Yusril said is certainly something
00:05:13that makes a lot of sense when
00:05:16there is an escalation not only related to
00:05:20illegal access, wiretapping, deleting evidence,
00:05:23but these conversations, if
00:05:26known by many parties, will lead to the next
00:05:29level, namely the crime of treason. That is what
00:05:33is also being investigated by colleagues in the police. Okay, to
00:05:36investigate this, Mr. Rubi, the data must be complete. Meanwhile, what we have
00:05:40heard, besides illegal tapping and also illegal access,
00:05:43four suspects are also suspected of trying to delete electronic
00:05:46evidence. Now, the question is, can
00:05:50the data, let's say the data has been deleted, be restored, Mr. Rubi?
00:05:53Yes, so if we refer
00:05:56to Mr. Eskrim's statement that the perpetrators
00:06:00tried to delete
00:06:03log files, sir. So log files and
00:06:07wiretapping results are two different things. Log files
00:06:10contain who accessed, when,
00:06:13and what was accessed. And
00:06:15under whose authority or permission.
00:06:19While the content of the wiretap is
00:06:23the content of the wiretap, which is different from the log. Well, hopefully
00:06:26only the log itself was deleted, but even if the log
00:06:30is deleted, the
00:06:33LIMS is with the operator, while they
00:06:36access and do all
00:06:39their tapping remotely using the monitoring
00:06:42center system. Well, we can
00:06:45be sure that the monitoring center owned by the police
00:06:49has the capability
00:06:52to perform a comprehensive digital forensic
00:06:55process to be able to optimally recover the data.
00:06:59Whatever technique they use, there are
00:07:02many recovery techniques that can maximize
00:07:06recovery, but there are buts. If
00:07:09advanced techniques are used for deletion
00:07:13by certain people, then recovery
00:07:17will not be possible. But there are still many
00:07:20other workarounds. From my perspective,
00:07:24besides the monitoring center, the LIMS must have backup
00:07:27data that backs up all those
00:07:31data. So even if the log is deleted, it doesn't mean it can't be recovered here, but there is backup
00:07:35data like that. Well, as Mr. Susno said earlier, this LIMS
00:07:39system, by
00:07:42default, audit trails are a
00:07:45must because this is a process
00:07:48of collecting sensitive
00:07:51information and it must be
00:07:55legal and lawful. Therefore,
00:07:58it must be ensured that audit trail logs are
00:08:02indeed difficult or impossible to delete
00:08:05so easily. So there must
00:08:09be layering in how to do it.
00:08:15Okay, is it possible to wiretap so many people,
00:08:18the president, then
00:08:21ministers, there are also members of the DPR,
00:08:24then chairmen of political parties, mass organizations,
00:08:27NGOs, media? Does it require
00:08:31many personnel or how,
00:08:34than four people who are now suspects have been investigated. Okay, this tool started
00:08:38working about 3 months after I became the Head of the Criminal
00:08:41Investigation Unit. This tool purchased
00:08:44by the state has
00:08:47rules, namely tools that can be called
00:08:51by the expert, Mr. Rubi, the IT expert.
00:08:54Yes,
00:08:56there is an operator for this.
00:09:00wiretapped, and so on, is in the log file.
00:09:04So, what was deleted? Was it the
00:09:08monitoring results that were typed and entered, or what is here?
00:09:11If it's here, all the tools provided by the government, whatever
00:09:15the system, there is
00:09:18something used for audit.
00:09:21This has been made by the factory to secure it, whether used
00:09:25by the police, KPK, BIN,
00:09:28prosecutor's office, BNN,
00:09:31especially to be audited. What does audited mean? It means
00:09:35the police's tool for wiretapping how many,
00:09:38on what date, when, and so on.
00:09:41Just match it. Everything is recorded here, sir. Yes, here
00:09:45this item records it. Just match it. The wiretapping on that date
00:09:49was with whose permission? Where is the police report?
00:09:53What are the results, and so on and so forth. It's
00:09:57possible. That's why I once said that tracing this
00:10:01item is the easiest. There are many experts.
00:10:04Then there is an electronic trail. Okay, so
00:10:07what requires special expertise, what the great police
00:10:11or great investigators can do is trace and
00:10:14catch in a short time clothesline thieves
00:10:18or lost sandal thieves, which is incredibly
00:10:21difficult. But for this, there's an electronic trail. Sir, but why
00:10:25does it have to involve so many stars? Sir, these stars
00:10:29are not related to what do you call it, wiretapping,
00:10:31but related to
00:10:34the needs of the wiretap results.
00:10:37Now, perhaps the question arises, what is this for?
00:10:40We are confident that it is not difficult
00:10:44for the new Chief of Police, who is truly serious, to
00:10:47trace this, and I am sure that the police
00:10:50have already found a bright spot where this data is flowing.
00:10:54Okay, it's definitely not flowing to Ms. Silvia. Where it's flowing
00:10:58is what we will discuss shortly. Viewers, stay tuned for more controversy.
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00:12:52Because from the results of the
00:12:55what do you call it, the leak from the source,
00:12:59the product of this wiretapping
00:13:02product, the final product, reached
00:13:05Solo, so whatever these people
00:13:09will do, they already know the direction
00:13:12of everything and how to disrupt
00:13:15it. That will
00:13:19appear in court, it will appear in
00:13:21court.
00:13:27Mas Adi, yes, was this
00:13:30wiretapping streamed
00:13:34or deposited in Solo?
00:13:37Silvia, don't ask me difficult questions.
00:13:39Well, Mr. Mahfud should explain this,
00:13:43because someone like Mr. Mahfud must have a lot of information.
00:13:46Just politically logically, Mr. Adi? Yes, as an ordinary person, it's a bit difficult
00:13:50for me to explain explicitly.
00:13:54But assumptions and suspicions
00:13:57actually lead to conclusions, but the public doesn't want to be
00:14:01as open as Prof. Mahfud MD. Mr. Mahfud is always full throttle,
00:14:04no brakes, because as of today, it is very
00:14:08risky if you are identified as mentioning certain parties.
00:14:12Of course, there is a fear of being reported, violating the NTE law and so on.
00:14:16But generally, this is considered part
00:14:19of how the public already has a conclusion. In the media, I think
00:14:23people are already talking about the "end of all this. So
00:14:26the parties who are currently, for example, identified
00:14:30as being involved in the illegal wiretapping issue
00:14:33are linked to whom, which faction, this gang, that gang, and so on and so
00:14:37forth. For me, if we want to take an average
00:14:41generally, as Mr. Prabowo said, whoever
00:14:44he is, if he violates the law,
00:14:47he must be executed. If he violates the law, he must be prosecuted, no
00:14:51matter who he is, and then commits acts
00:14:55that are clearly illegal. There have been many political events that have occurred
00:14:58in the last month, Mr. Adi, including
00:15:02the Constitutional Court's decision, the Supreme Court's
00:15:05decision, and then related to the certificate
00:15:08of equivalence, Gibran's diploma. Then we
00:15:12saw that the Vice President also was not on the list of wiretapped people.
00:15:16In your opinion, are these political events intertwined
00:15:19with each other? Well, of course, nothing happens in a vacuum.
00:15:23Every political process, whatever it is, is intertwined
00:15:27and then sewn by the public that this is one event
00:15:31that is indeed related to each other, but no one
00:15:34dares to vulgarly define the end of all
00:15:37this. Who is in control of this
00:15:41game? Who then gives instructions and orders, including
00:15:45whether there is a third party who actually wants to
00:15:47exploit A1 information related to this wiretapping? As of today,
00:15:50no one can explicitly
00:15:54reveal that, because of the fear of being reported, Silvia, because
00:15:57of the fear of actions being linked to legal
00:16:00issues. The only thing awaited is the development
00:16:03of the investigation conducted by the Criminal Investigation Unit. Actually,
00:16:07who is involved in this, that's what's actually awaited. But
00:16:11assumptions, suspicions, predictions,
00:16:14I think you just need to quote them on social media, where I think everyone
00:16:18is already vocal in speaking up, but they never
00:16:21mention who the person is, who the actor is, and who the party is. Well,
00:16:25Mr. Mahfud's statement is just one of the signs that
00:16:28seems to confirm that the public actually
00:16:31tends to agree with what Mr. Mahfud said, right? That's what I called
00:16:35public statements on social media. Okay, all this information must
00:16:39have also been caught by the palace, heard by the president
00:16:43too. The president must also receive reports, where this is going,
00:16:47what the motive is. Maybe the palace circle knows earlier
00:16:50than us, but has the president
00:16:53taken a stance from that, is there
00:16:56a clear political stance on how to
00:16:59respond to all these intertwined political events, Mr. Kurdi? Yes, the president
00:17:03places this issue
00:17:07on the track of law enforcement. So today
00:17:10there are criminal acts proven
00:17:14by the naming of four people as suspects, and
00:17:17the president's directive to the Chief of Police is to investigate
00:17:20thoroughly, develop this case
00:17:24according to the statements of the suspects and witnesses.
00:17:28Today we heard a statement from
00:17:31the National Police Public Relations who regularly informed of the progress,
00:17:35there are 13 witnesses
00:17:38examined, there are five experts, three related
00:17:42to IT experts and two criminal experts.
00:17:45Of course, with the statements of witnesses and experts,
00:17:49four people have been named as suspects,
00:17:52because Ms. Silvia, the concern of the president and
00:17:55also the government, is that every citizen
00:17:58when communicating has a privacy
00:18:02space protected by law.
00:18:06"Our rights are classified
00:18:09as human rights. Therefore, when
00:18:13there is an illegal interception, especially
00:18:16if carried out by law enforcement officials of the highest
00:18:20police leadership, it must be dealt with firmly.
00:18:24That's it, Ms. Silvia. Well, Mr. Susno, so that this doesn't become a wild ball
00:18:28or just political assumptions that then
00:18:30spread everywhere, is the key
00:18:34in law enforcement, that investigators must reveal
00:18:38this clearly, what the motive is, who
00:18:40ordered it, where this wiretapped data flowed?
00:18:44Does all that have to be revealed transparently to the public? Yes, yes, that's very good.
00:18:48The Chief of Police just stated that this legal process will be processed
00:18:51thoroughly.
00:18:55Mr. Kurnia said earlier, has clearly stated,
00:18:58"Investigate this legally and thoroughly." So
00:19:02what the public expects, where the flow goes,
00:19:06who uses it, and so on, if it is processed
00:19:09legally and juridically, everything will be revealed.
00:19:13Everything will be revealed, and let's be patient. And this
00:19:16hopefully will be the best lesson,
00:19:19meaning for all institutions that
00:19:23use tools like this, whatever
00:19:37country. Why is it a good lesson?
00:19:40Because what was uncovered by the police,
00:19:44yes, by the new Chief of Police, uncovering
00:19:46this, it was revealed that
00:19:50the wiretapping as Mr. Kurnia
00:19:53said earlier, has been going on for years, already 2 years.
00:19:57The Head of the Criminal Investigation Unit also stated 2 years. Well, this is the best lesson
00:20:00for us. Well, why could our president
00:20:04be wiretapped for 2 years? Second,
00:20:08remember, this is not the first time a president has been wiretapped. We have experienced
00:20:11three presidents being wiretapped, President BJ Habibie's conversation
00:20:15with the Attorney General at that time.
00:20:18Second, our president, whether proven or not, but with the first lady,
00:20:22Mr. SBY was also wiretapped. Now, it's
00:20:25time for us to learn to secure it. I
00:20:28am sure Mr. Kurnia
00:20:32has a message, it is necessary to audit
00:20:35these items. Okay, well, and a security system
00:20:41regarding the tool, not security in terms of
00:20:44the speech system, Mr. Kurdi, but the tool itself.
00:20:47The tool, right, Mr.?
00:20:50To trace exactly when this wiretapping
00:20:53was done, or if it was done more
00:20:57than a year ago, because old
00:21:00videos are also circulating that seem to indicate
00:21:43as many channels as provided by the LIMS operator. So
00:21:46the point is that data to see
00:21:50when it first happened, when an illegal
00:21:53wiretap occurred, by whom,
00:21:56and to what target can be seen
00:21:59as long as the data is still in the system.
00:22:03The way LIMS works is different from Pegasus. This has been widely
00:22:06discussed, right? Compared to LIMS with Pegasus, which is said to be from
00:22:10Israel. Mr. Rubi will answer later.
00:22:13Viewers, we have to pause. Controversy will be back soon.
00:22:17lagi.
00:23:20and full of excitements. 10 years anniversary of Pop.
00:23:24Essay love yourself.
00:23:27Business Zone, Monday to Friday at the
00:23:29following times. Let's go to the world of
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00:23:40and full of excitements, 10 years anniversary of
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00:23:45Yourself.
00:23:53Viewers, the sixth president of the Republic of Indonesia, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, expressed
00:23:57his concern about the current political situation
00:24:00following the alleged illegal wiretapping case involving former Chief of Police
00:24:04General Listyo Sigit
00:24:07X account. SBY expressed his concern that this case
00:24:11would make the public feel unsafe in their own country.
00:24:14SBY also conveyed a special message to President Prabowo
00:24:18Subianto. He asked the President to revive
00:24:22civilized
00:24:23politics.
00:24:30Well, since this is the last segment of Controversy
00:24:33today, perhaps I will first continue to Mr. Rubi
00:24:37regarding the difference between LIMS and
00:24:40Pegasus and how to prevent
00:24:43our tools, which were bought with public
00:24:47money, from being misused, Mr. Rubi.
00:24:51The difference is that LIMS is placed
00:24:54with the operator, so all
00:24:58GSM network data in the form of
00:25:01voice, SMS, and IP data
00:25:04is in LIMS, but the target is
00:25:08checked only by phone number. But the difference is that with
00:25:11spyware, without LIMS, without
00:25:15the help of an operator, the target
00:25:17can be anyone and any kind of
00:25:21smartphone. The most fundamental difference
00:25:24is that Pegasus can
00:25:28wiretap everything. Whatever is on the phone
00:25:32is not just phone communication. It can
00:25:36also, if the phone is infected with Pegasus,
00:25:40the microphone here can be
00:25:43remotely activated to listen to conversations
00:25:46directly and record them and
00:25:50save them on the server. So Pegasus is extremely
00:25:53what exactly is it? Physically it is
00:25:56a high-level spyware application
00:25:59made by the state of Israel.
00:26:02How does it get into a phone? If it's Lims, it's put into the monitoring center,
00:26:06then thrown to Lims and to the operator. If
00:26:09it's Pegasus, it's thrown from a monitoring center too, but without
00:26:12needing Lims. It's targeted,
00:26:16a phone number will be sent something.
00:26:19That something can be random, it can be various things, then
00:26:22that something will enter our phone. In Indonesia, is there, what, is there not
00:26:26Pegasus in Indonesia? There are
00:26:29many, there are many. Then
00:26:32after it's installed, now, for Pegasus and
00:26:36other brands, the most common one
00:26:39is single click. Now, single
00:26:42click means if spyware is installed remotely, the user
00:26:46has to interact, has to click on any display.
00:26:49But Pegasus is one of the highest, it has a product called
00:26:53zero click. So without clicking, anyone's
00:26:56phone can be accessed. Yes. Because time is limited, I have to move on, Mr.
00:27:00Rubi, but thank you for the explanation.
00:27:02Yes, Mr. Kurnia, with the fact
00:27:05that there was eavesdropping done in the palace
00:27:08circles, as Mr. SB said, this seems to be very far from
00:27:12our civilized culture as a nation
00:27:15and a state, right? Will there be
00:27:19recalibration in the palace environment soon so that incidents
00:27:22like this do not happen again? Yes, there will definitely be
00:27:26an evaluation, perpetrators who commit criminal acts will
00:27:29be prosecuted and things that... This
00:27:33will be treated as a criminal event and
00:27:35will be investigated further and the system and
00:27:39so on will be improved. That's the first thing, Ms. Hasil. Then the second thing is that this
00:27:43event sends a message
00:27:46that law enforcement is not
00:27:49discriminatory. No matter how many stars are on the
00:27:53shoulders of law enforcement officers, if there is a deviation, they will
00:27:57be processed by law. The president once
00:27:59stated that
00:28:03law enforcement officers must be aware that the stars on their shoulders
00:28:06come from the people's money, so do not betray
00:28:10the people. Lastly, Ms. Silvia, in today's law
00:28:14enforcement, it is widely discussed by the public,
00:28:17as stated by the National Police Chief, the Minister of State
00:28:20Secretariat, that this law enforcement
00:28:23does not affect public services in
00:28:27the National Police institution, and two, it does not
00:28:29disturb security at all. In all regions
00:28:33of Indonesia, as stated by the Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs, security in
00:28:37Indonesia is very much under control. Okay, thank
00:28:41you, Mr. Kurnia. Finally, maybe Mr. Adi can be brief about
00:28:44whether there needs to be recalibration of the president's
00:28:47aides to prevent or even to
00:28:50clean the palace of individuals who are playing dirty or playing
00:28:54both sides? Yes, I think the president will conduct
00:28:57a total evaluation, so that this does not
00:29:00happen like a donkey falling into the same hole for the second time. But for
00:29:04me, in principle, we often hear political speeches from President Prabowo
00:29:08Subianto so that law enforcement officials
00:29:11immediately reform themselves. If they are still deviating,
00:29:14crooked, ragged, as the president said, they will definitely be prosecuted
00:29:18and dismissed. It used to be a source of jokes, it was considered
00:29:22empty talk, it was considered something ridiculous, but if
00:29:26we look at law enforcement in the 2 years of Mr. Prabowo's administration, it is not
00:29:29discriminatory. People who were once appreciated with... a good performance in their positions, former
00:29:32National Police Chief, then
00:29:36what's his name, the head of special crimes, then also the head of BGN and many other
00:29:40examples, what does that mean? This is an iron law related to
00:29:44law enforcement, so whoever you are, if you are acting strangely and deviating,
00:29:48just wait for the time. That's how it is, let's see how this ends and whether the Police can truly
00:29:51apa dan apakah Poli betul-betul bisa mengupas tuntas mengungkap
00:29:55you, Mr. Adik, Mr. Masno, then
00:29:59Mr. Rubi and also Mr. Kurnia. Viewers, that concludes today's controversy.