Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00that the presiding officer should continue the session, then he gave up
00:00:03on that. Yesterday, we didn't see anyone trying to
00:00:07protect the integrity of a body like REM
00:00:10by not allowing Vučićević to behave that way at that session. It
00:00:14was scandalous, and it was certainly one of
00:00:17the targeted functions of yesterday's gathering and
00:00:20his arrival and entry into that hall and so on. But how much does that speak
00:00:24about the delicacy of making
00:00:28such decisions at a time when... We also have that gathering. Does it seem to you that
00:00:31it was instrumentalized, i.e., that
00:00:35yesterday's REM session was instrumentalized by
00:00:39supporters of the Serbian Progressive Party for some
00:00:42agenda of theirs at this moment? No, what it seems
00:00:45to me is that people are shocked because the law is being applied, so the law
00:00:49on electronic media is being applied. It should have been
00:00:52applied long ago, ever since the law
00:00:55on electronic media was passed. It really has precise provisions about what
00:00:59ORO also talked about, what measures from a warning to
00:01:03a temporary imposition of a certain measure to
00:01:06the license. The REM
00:01:10Council, which for a very long decade was
00:01:13blocked, was not constructive. There were
00:01:16some individual measures taken, but the REM Council
00:01:19which at that time was chaired by Olivera Zekić could also
00:01:23have taken a lot of
00:01:26measures to prevent what we
00:01:30have come to today. So we have here a media owner who
00:01:33complains that this is the most scandalous and most difficult measure.
00:01:37In fact, it is on that scale of one to five, at level three. So
00:01:41you couldn't immediately go to revoking the license. A larger
00:01:44institution, like SAVEMA, could only
00:01:47decide that way. And the issue of instrumentalization here
00:01:51refers more to political instrumentalization, not
00:01:54only of that television, but
00:01:57many other tabloid media and televisions that for years here
00:01:59supported the government, who were spokespersons
00:02:03for the government, who served in their time for a kind of showdown with
00:02:07many dissenters, for targeting, for
00:02:10examining various conspiracy theories, for examining
00:02:14various political topics and for somewhere
00:02:17maintaining the political spectrum in the sense that
00:02:20you have such a television or such a tabloid in
00:02:24which you have the most severe
00:02:27insults, which from the front pages or from... from those
00:02:30headlines or from those broadcasts propagates hate speech,
00:02:34slanders people, labels them and so on, so that the government in
00:02:37that case would appear as a factor of stability, as
00:02:41someone who rises above it, who says, "Wait, we will now
00:02:44stabilize," and so on. How many times have we heard from such televisions
00:02:48that a civil war is starting, that the constitutional order is being overthrown, that these are
00:02:51haters, that these are traitors? Of course, over the years
00:02:55it was completely logical that a very large
00:02:58number of citizens and various organizations would file
00:03:01complaints against the violation of their own dignity
00:03:05or their own personal integrity. So
00:03:08it is an accumulation of inaction, an accumulation
00:03:12of unresolved issues for which the previous REM
00:03:16Council was primarily responsible. We have come to
00:03:20this situation where you now have a completely
00:03:23swollen performance, a
00:03:26practically reality program that is happening in front of the building
00:03:30but if if the REM Council uh the previous
00:03:34convocation is responsible for what you are saying, for ignoring
00:03:37for many years those piles of uh uh
00:03:40hundreds of code violations and complaints, now the same
00:03:43body uh in the same composition, which is incomplete,
00:03:47incompletely uh before the elections during the pre-election
00:03:51campaign, does not have a majority to make a decision that that
00:03:54Informer television uh be monitored during the pre-election
00:03:58campaign and after the elections has a majority to make such measures,
00:04:02how do you view that moment of awakening and
00:04:06applying the law, as you began, that's right, so first, just to
00:04:09correct, the body is not in the same composition, it cannot be in the same
00:04:12composition uh by uh the people who
00:04:16sit there, but it was very concerning to me that in the same
00:04:20sense, immediately before the elections and now, the same eight, the same eight
00:04:23members did not make a majority decision to
00:04:26silence, now it has a majority decision to.
00:04:30That's right, the question arises, what would that monitoring of Informer
00:04:34have revealed and are there capacities for it or not? I listened to
00:04:37the president of the REM Council, this REM Council, who says that the expert
00:04:41service does not have the capacities to include Informer in the monitoring
00:04:44of the pre-election campaign, because if it did, then some things
00:04:48could have been alarmed, marked red, then it might have been
00:04:51said that this cannot be, this is a violation of the rules
00:04:55of pre-election behavior, because there is certainly
00:05:00political culture." a medium on an expert service for monitoring the work of broadcasters which has a mandate for that, and it was
00:05:04very problematic for me because the vote was then four to four,
00:05:07it was clear to you that people did not want to vote for Informer to be
00:05:11put under some kind of supervision, not only that
00:05:14television, but many other televisions for which there was a need
00:05:18to be supervised in their own way during
00:05:22the campaign. Then also from that
00:05:24institution which really cannot say that it is independent,
00:05:28a statement appears that no one signed, that no one
00:05:32saw, allegedly everyone washed their hands of it in the end and said,
00:05:35"No, we have no idea who wrote this." That is the statement in which N1 and Nova violate
00:05:39the pre-election silence, first on what basis and on the basis of whose
00:05:43analysis. So here we are talking about a captivity,
00:05:46not only of the media space, but of the captivity of institutions
00:05:50which the government, now the outgoing government, has
00:05:53set up so that it simply has the entire media sector under control by
00:05:57controlling independent institutions, and what we are seeing today
00:06:01is actually the result of that captivity and
00:06:05such an attitude towards the media, that everything could be
00:06:08talked about, except for a free media space, about freedom of the media as
00:06:12such. Let's omit to comment
00:06:15on what we saw, and that is somewhere a question for both of you. On the one
00:06:18hand, what we hear from
00:06:21representatives of the outgoing government and from people from
00:06:25Informer, how someone is allegedly forbidding them free speech,
00:06:28free thought. On the other hand, that
00:06:32defense of Informer is happening from that
00:06:35screen, but also physically, so
00:06:38in front of the REM offices where we
00:06:41had an attack on our journalist. So
00:06:44the story about the alleged prohibition of freedom, our
00:06:48journalist Anđela Čolanić could not finish her report because of
00:06:52the interference caused by people. It was indeed an attack
00:06:56also on Rodoljub Šabić as a member
00:06:59of the REM Council. How far
00:07:02does that defense of Informer
00:07:05go and why was it necessary to harness that entire
00:07:10machinery, including that
00:07:13gathering? Well, I think the biggest news from
00:07:17that event is that verbal attack on
00:07:20Mr. Šabić and
00:07:22the obstruction, which is a kind of attack on your
00:07:26journalist, because that actually shows what the
00:07:30essence of that politics and that
00:07:33political performance they organized yesterday is. Those
00:07:37people who obstructed your journalist are actually
00:07:40victims of this propaganda that Informer
00:07:43has been sowing for years, propaganda that affirms hatred,
00:07:47that makes people feel that they can
00:07:50just obstruct someone who is doing their job, first of all, and second
00:07:53that they obstruct journalists
00:07:57in spreading news who work
00:08:00in a professional manner, that they are completely comfortable that
00:08:04they saw who was targeted and that it needs to be attacked. That is the
00:08:08atmosphere of lynching and attack that they organize, as well
00:08:12as that staged attack on Informer for which it was very quickly
00:08:15clear who organized it and what its goal was. And
00:08:19that's why it's good that citizens actually don't fall for it, because now that
00:08:22it didn't work for them and what happened with Pink, now they have
00:08:26organized an attack on REM, they brought
00:08:29several loyalists, they brought all their
00:08:33top people, the first lineup, only Vučić was missing to appear
00:08:36there. That actually shows what message they
00:08:40want to send. Uh... "This is part of a broader
00:08:44political picture. I will quickly return to REM and
00:08:47Informer, but uh the way the government
00:08:51is behaving now, it looks like when the Germans were retreating from Belgrade
00:08:54in '44, everywhere you go, a landmine. So
00:08:58now you have to work very carefully with that, not to fall for their
00:09:01provocations, because they no longer actually have
00:09:04control over everything, it's falling apart on all sides, that's
00:09:07clear, with the fact that now they are offering a little finger so as not to give
00:09:11a hand, because this punishment yesterday, when it was pronounced, it's strange
00:09:14that all eight vote
00:09:17unanimously. The best way actually, this
00:09:21member of the council Garić,
00:09:23perhaps unconsciously explained what it is that they did. When he spoke at
00:09:27the beginning, he first told Vučićević that they had gone a little
00:09:31too far. In fact, it ended with him mentioning
00:09:34N1, Nova and so on, which are not
00:09:37the subject of discussion on that agenda item, and from that it
00:09:41can be seen what their... "this trouble and what really hurts them,
00:09:44and that's why I don't believe that they will go all the way with
00:09:48Informer, let REM fall apart
00:09:52rather than impose a ban where they will prohibit
00:09:55Informer. This is in a symbolic sense,
00:09:58because Informer can continue to broadcast its program
00:10:02through, for example, a YouTube channel or in other ways. They
00:10:06want to demonstrate here that they do not give up
00:10:09first the symbol of their
00:10:13which anyone can say whatever they want, attack whoever
00:10:16they want, because not only according to the Law on Electronic Media but also according to some
00:10:20other laws, you have freedom of speech, but only to the
00:10:23extent that you do not endanger someone else. It is precisely defined what
00:10:27you are not allowed to say, and they say it as if it's nothing. Then
00:10:31when you criticize it, they say you are introducing censorship or
00:10:35you want to restrict freedom of public speech. You can speak
00:10:38publicly, but you cannot say just anything, and that is precisely what
00:10:42REM is for, to set some rules for how to
00:10:45behave. And also, this was supposed to be some
00:10:49demonstration of their power. They want to increase
00:10:53the homogenization among their loyalists.
00:10:55They managed to bring them there, how many, 100, 200, it doesn't matter,
00:10:59that's nothing, but they can be dangerous.
00:11:02And what they started with Mr. Šabić
00:11:06after that is actually a true picture of what
00:11:09would happen if they could spread their wings. I
00:11:13hope they will be erased from
00:11:16the history of Serbia from the political scene, so that we will no longer have to watch
00:11:19such scenes. It is a shame for all these leading people
00:11:23from the SNS who came yesterday...
00:11:26came, and the woman who is the acting president of the republic came
00:11:29to such a gathering to make some statements to further
00:11:33provoke such an atmosphere. Aleksandra, let me add to those
00:11:36scenes we saw outside, so
00:11:39the effects of that reporting under
00:11:43the guise of alleged
00:11:45freedom of speech, so it's clear to us here that we can
00:11:49call things by their real name, what is journalistic
00:11:53work, what is not journalistic work.
00:11:55"But still, if we take into account those effects, one million and
00:11:58seven hundred thousand people still voted for the Serbian
00:12:02Progressive Party. So how do we
00:12:05remedy the consequences of what we had in the media
00:12:08space, so vulgar expression, and
00:12:12targeting people, hate speech, so everything that is
00:12:15unacceptable in the public space, which
00:12:18for some population has been normalized as
00:12:22media, as journalism." How
00:12:25to remedy those consequences? Well, that is a really difficult question and it will take
00:12:29years, it's not a job that can be done overnight,
00:12:33and here we are not just talking about remedying the terrible effects
00:12:36and consequences that such hate speech from these tabloid televisions, many
00:12:40tabloid media, causes and propagates for years, but also
00:12:44the question of returning journalism to the media.
00:12:48So you have many propagandistic
00:12:51propaganda organs and propagandists who are not journalists among
00:12:55people who are some self-proclaimed analysts who
00:12:58only serve to support the government, in this sense
00:13:02the outgoing government, that
00:13:05the government of the Serbian Progressive Party
00:13:08missed an opportunity to truly
00:13:11democratically regulate the media space. We had
00:13:15great chances to deal with
00:13:17that, but unfortunately that chance was missed, and when you talk
00:13:21about the performance of the president Ana Brnabić yesterday
00:13:25uh... "I remember her first exposé when she became
00:13:28prime minister, when it was her first mandate in that
00:13:32exposé in that first period of 2017.
00:13:36she advocated for media freedom, she said that
00:13:39a lot would be invested in the media
00:13:42industry, issues of digitalization, gaming and so
00:13:45on, I don't know if you remember that, but it actually very quickly became
00:13:48clear once Serbia received the first assessments of the terrible
00:13:52violation of media freedom from internationally recognized..." institutions, the government
00:13:56began to ignore such assessments. That government continued to
00:13:59ignore all assessments of the violation of media freedom,
00:14:02the targeting of independent journalists, and so on. So you had a
00:14:06government that on the one hand ignored it, and on the other hand did everything to
00:14:09spin it so that in the end, now, what we saw yesterday,
00:14:13presented media freedom from a completely different, spun
00:14:17architecture
00:14:19which, which cannot, should not be freedom of the media, hate speech is not
00:14:23freedom of the media. This is what uh uh and the professor
00:14:26said in that sense, you cannot
00:14:29speak or act if it endangers the security and integrity of someone
00:14:33else, if it endangers the dignity of a person. All European
00:14:36conventions, United Nations
00:14:40conventions on human rights and so on, speak about this. We had numerous
00:14:43shortcomings in our laws. Of course, on the other hand, you cannot have
00:14:46in one program, freedom of speech or freedom
00:14:50of the media cannot be considered the display of explicit photographs of my
00:14:54female students or the targeting when female students'
00:14:58faces are put on screen and it is said she is whatever,
00:15:02and then all the worst insults and worst words are spoken just
00:15:05because someone is a female student who supported the protest and so on. How many
00:15:09times have people in this public life been crucified in
00:15:13such shows? But what is a much bigger problem here is
00:15:16impunity and simply the absence of law enforcement
00:15:19in all the past years, which is why such media
00:15:22were allowed to operate completely freely, unpunished,
00:15:26because no sanction was imposed
00:15:29except through private lawsuits when such televisions can be ordered
00:15:33to pay 100,000-200,000 dinars for,
00:15:36for example, in such a court procedure. But excuse me,
00:15:39now we have seen that 100,000-200,000 dinars is nothing for such media that
00:15:43receive monthly pumped-in money from Telekom and from the state,
00:15:47factually at some completely unbelievable levels,
00:15:51some abstract figures that we as citizens of Serbia cannot. Now, do
00:15:55we then come to the point where, uh, if we know that
00:15:58the financing of such media often went through additional financing from
00:16:01public funds through public procurement, local
00:16:05tenders, and even state enterprises. There is that
00:16:08economic model where any kind of punishment
00:16:11is simply irrelevant and can only
00:16:14serve as a piece of paper that says that some
00:16:17kind of law is being respected,
00:16:21but uh the financial effects are much greater and the political
00:16:25effects. Do you see any signs now of changing that
00:16:28practice, uh breaking up? Then some
00:16:31kind of market would actually
00:16:34regulate what perhaps the council. "cannot and
00:16:38should not. I think it's too early, I don't see any signs of that,
00:16:41because REM should be doing many other things to
00:16:44regulate the entire scene. You know that
00:16:48we actually had two waves of privatization
00:16:52of local media which led to the fact that they are all now
00:16:55concentrated under
00:16:58practically one paw or let's say two, and
00:17:02that it is clear that in
00:17:05fact the media..." "function of those
00:17:09outlets has been lost, it is weakened. I don't know
00:17:13what it's for at all. Many of these small media are highly
00:17:17dependent on the small amount of funds they receive in some tenders and
00:17:20then they are blackmailed and similar. This actually
00:17:24fundamentally endangers free
00:17:27journalism, journalism as a profession, and this should be
00:17:30dealt with seriously, although it is also necessary
00:17:33to review the total number of these media that."
00:17:37exist. As I have said many times, we need to re-examine whether we
00:17:41actually need five national frequencies for
00:17:45electronic media. There is a lot of work there. I, I
00:17:48certainly leave it to my colleague to give more
00:17:52grounded judgments on that because it is not, it is not my field, but
00:17:55politically speaking, that requires
00:17:59fundamental reform, a change in REM's own approach.
00:18:02It is not the main player in all of this, but it can of course take care
00:18:06primarily of programs, these status issues, whether someone meets all
00:18:10the conditions to even exist as a media outlet, not to
00:18:13mention how many radio stations there are and so on. There
00:18:16is a lot of work, because usually in the media you see these
00:18:20key things that are politically effective, and
00:18:23actually, every SAVEMA at every session processes
00:18:27a bunch of other issues that really concern the status,
00:18:30work, functioning, and survival of small media. We
00:18:33need to preserve and revive, it seems
00:18:37to me, the local media scene. It is very
00:18:40important for citizens, for their local issues, because
00:18:44these national media cannot deal with all that is
00:18:47important for their daily lives, so that should not be overshadowed
00:18:51by such events. And, well, another function of what
00:18:54Informer did yesterday is to push those things into the shadows.
00:18:58Imagine that you have to deal with some Vučićević there where in fact
00:19:02we have economic problems, infrastructure problems, health
00:19:06problems. We are dealing with what he says and does. I think
00:19:09we can only briefly answer, so both of them, at
00:19:12the beginning of the story,
00:19:16a quick question: why is Informer important to Vučić at this moment
00:19:19of interregnum, at this moment I would say for damage
00:19:22control? Uh, the student list won by over
00:19:26600,000 votes, uh, in relation
00:19:29to the Serbian Progressive Party, that is a truly enormous
00:19:32difference. This is now damage control, just as it was necessary to
00:19:35maintain that... that government narrative
00:19:39and for various, I mean, it was a classic political
00:19:43instrumentalization of a media outlet, or a propaganda organ,
00:19:46to test various things and to control the narrative in that
00:19:50sense. And now it is truly necessary because
00:19:52for the former government, now we see from these
00:19:55various events in recent days, it is that
00:19:59in order to control the damage and, it seems
00:20:02to me, to protect Vučić, that is actually the most important brand, it is
00:20:06him, so personally, by name and surname in that sense. That is why such
00:20:09a media outlet is needed to continue to
00:20:12propagate everything that the former government itself did
00:20:16earlier, because now, we have seen, the media
00:20:20space has narrowed. Many of these televisions with national frequency have
00:20:23very quickly, very easily changed their
00:20:26angle. Very quickly they either shut down their news program, like
00:20:30B92, or they, like Prva, I don't know, started
00:20:34broadcasting now, I don't know, everything about the student list. You have RTS.
00:20:38"Their website and the news that is now completely different. I think that people who watch
00:20:41RTS wonder what BIRN is, I mean,
00:20:45and so on. On the other hand, I must say that for me the most important
00:20:49story which..." "When we look at the control of everything, the wiretapping
00:20:52of journalists, radars and mass wiretapping
00:20:55of people, which we are only now seeing is opening up, it raises
00:20:59the question of the extent to which digital authoritarianism in Serbia, besides
00:21:02this political authoritarianism, went
00:21:05in parallel as a huge lever of power to control
00:21:09the entire media space, to intimidate journalists and
00:21:13especially investigative stories to be pushed aside so that you come to this, that
00:21:16now actually on the same day we have a story about..."
00:21:20uh that blockade in front of REM, i.e., about that protest in front of
00:21:23REM, at the same time on the day when we have a story about mass
00:21:27wiretapping of citizens, that is the main thing for me, excuse me, no,
00:21:31we don't have much time, professor, just briefly, why is Informer important
00:21:34to Vučić? Well, I've already said a few things. You said at
00:21:38one point his 1,700,000 votes. I
00:21:42think we will very soon know how many votes he actually had in the elections,
00:21:46because I believe that a good part of that was stolen. He
00:21:49now needs to stop the erosion, he is buying
00:21:52time, because they are now trying to cover up the traces
00:21:56that will lead to indictments. You saw that
00:22:00arrests have already started. I think this is still just
00:22:03scratching the surface, but now this group
00:22:07and Žmirić were arrested, my party
00:22:10Serbia Centre filed a lawsuit on August 25 and all those eight
00:22:13names are now, so completely what we sued for is
00:22:17covered by this arrest. Plus
00:22:20Žmirić, this
00:22:24they preserve, they maintain that culture of violence which
00:22:28they constantly nurture, and I expect the radicals will continue to do so even when they are in
00:22:32opposition, that is their manner, that is their culture, everything, so
00:22:36it was all combined in that move that was
00:22:39made yesterday. That's why it's important to him, but I think it's important for him to
00:22:43maintain homogeneity among loyalists, because he will need a group
00:22:46of people he can bring out into the street to protect some
00:22:50misdeeds, and he is buying time, because
00:22:53they are now covering up everything they did. These manipulated,
00:22:57instrumentalized people
00:23:00don't know that they are actually serving so that tomorrow they will be discarded,
00:23:03as Vučić usually does. Thank
00:23:07you very much for this conversation, this was our topic
00:23:10this morning. Our guests were professors Aleksandra Krstić and Slobodan
00:23:14Cvejić. Stay with Novi Dan, we will be back soon with new stories after the
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00:29:28of students of Jovan Gymnasium Zmaj in Novi Sad
00:29:32announced that today at 10 o'clock they will come before the
00:29:36Ministry of Education in Belgrade, demanding
00:29:39the immediate dismissal of the director of that school, Radivoj
00:29:42Stojković, whom the court prohibited from entering the
00:29:45gymnasium and approaching certain professors.
00:29:49If Minister Dejan Vuk Stanković does not act on their request,
00:29:52they will file a criminal complaint against him. In front of the Ministry
00:29:56of Education is N1 reporter Anđela
00:29:59Čolanić, Anđela. "It's 10
00:30:03o'clock, what do the parents specifically demand from the Ministry of Education and what will
00:30:06they do if the minister does not dismiss the director
00:30:08of the gymnasium?
00:30:11That's right, Milan, it's 10 o'clock, a delegation of parents
00:30:14of Jovina Gymnasium came to the door of
00:30:18the Minister of Education, they demand
00:30:21the dismissal of director Radivoj Stojković,
00:30:25they gave the minister 48 hours previously to do so, given that
00:30:29they did not receive an answer from the minister..." they will repeat these demands, we
00:30:32will talk about it in more detail with Jelena Kovačević
00:30:36Vorgučin, she is the mother of one of the students of this
00:30:39gymnasium, so we are again following the situation with Jovina
00:30:42gymnasium, uh, what is currently happening and first let's say what
00:30:46are the demands that you address to the Minister
00:30:50of Education? Good day and thank you for following this
00:30:52situation at the gymnasium, so we are not here for the first time to...
00:30:56situaciju na gimnaziji, dakle mi nismo prvi put ovde da...