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00:00:00For over 60 years,
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00:00:32We are CNN, the world's leader in news.
00:00:47institutional actors of the Tuesday, October 27, and Luis Ignacio Lula da Silva
00:00:50had two reasons to celebrate the fourth
00:00:53term he achieved, something unprecedented in Brazil, his
00:00:5681st birthday was added.
00:01:00Flavio Bolsonaro, about to lose his immunity, did not acknowledge the
00:01:03defeat, although he had said he would not, he finally went to
00:01:07the United States, just like his father in 2022.
00:01:10He did not have the support of his party, which did accept that Lula had won,
00:01:14although Flavio declared that he was the real president-elect
00:01:17of Brazil, his possible leadership over
00:01:20the opposition was left in doubt, as were the effects
00:01:24that Donald Trump's reception of him would have on the relationship between
00:01:27Brazil and the United States.
00:01:31Mass mobilization, a digital army, change in
00:01:34discourse, some of the reasons, experts say, for Lula
00:01:37to go from being 2.2 million votes behind in the first
00:01:41round to almost 4.5 million ahead of Bolsonaro in
00:01:45the second. But many questions remain on the table: how much
00:01:49governability will the president be able to guarantee? Does Flavio's departure
00:01:52open space for the traditional right, or will a new
00:01:56name from his family take
00:01:58stimulating people's fear the bet? What does it mean for the continent, the tension,
00:02:01Washington, Brasilia, and that this
00:02:04time there won't be a swing to the right? We will discuss
00:02:08Brazil's future today on Global Connection
00:02:11for CNN en Español.
00:02:15And we begin the analysis of the situation in Brazil with Amaro, who
00:02:19is the director of the communication school of the Ditulio Vargas Foundation.
00:02:23Thank you very much, Amaro, for speaking with CNN Chile and CNN
00:02:27en Español.
00:02:34gives this benefit to Flavio, I would like to ask you, Flavio Bolsonaro, leaves
00:02:37Brazil, what political effect
00:02:39does it have
00:02:41in Brazil, but also on his leadership? Does it
00:02:45damage him, victimize him, and therefore help him? What do you analyze
00:02:49about that? Well, the truth is that the events
00:02:53are eh happening at that moment,
00:02:56so there are many things that we don't know yet.
00:03:00But I think that an idea is
00:03:03generalizing in Brazil that from a political
00:03:07point of view for himself
00:03:09it has been an
00:03:13error because or a decision
00:03:16that diminishes his stature, right? Because
00:03:21from the perspective of Trump's he came out with 59% of the 59 million
00:03:24votes, almost
00:03:2649%
00:03:29of the votes in the elections, that is, three or four
00:03:33days ago he was expected to be the new
00:03:36president and today, eh, not only
00:03:39does he lose the election but he leaves the country in
00:03:43an incredible
00:03:45way, like a scene from a movie script, and
00:03:48well, on the other hand, all his political camp,
00:03:52the right in Brazil, which was indeed very
00:03:56strengthened in Congress, and it must be said that
00:04:00his party, the PL, the Liberal Party, is today
00:04:03the largest party in the Chamber
00:04:06society. What of Deputies, it is the largest party in the
00:04:09Senate, so it would have all the conditions to
00:04:13be a very strong opposition
00:04:16and maintain his leadership, but
00:04:19now that he has been absent,
00:04:23the truth is that other actors, especially the governor of São
00:04:26Paulo and Michelle Bolsonaro,
00:04:30are starting to move to fill a political
00:04:34void.
00:04:37with Lula to Amaro, from that perspective, we have heard precisely, and we had commented during the coverage, that
00:04:40Tarcísio de Freitas, who is the governor of São
00:04:43Paulo, could
00:04:45So, for example, the presidents of indeed be a future leader, right? As long as the
00:04:48Bolsonaros were there, the question here is whether that right-wing, which is not as
00:04:51the data, ready for what radical as the one represented by the governor of São Paulo, will be the one that will
00:04:55predominate, if it will take advantage of this space now
00:04:58versus the... What do you
00:05:01think? Well, that's the
00:05:05key question, right? Because everything,
00:05:08in my perspective, everything will
00:05:11you. We follow depend on the strength that Bolsonaro
00:05:14senior will have in 4 years, in three or 4 years, because he is
00:05:17incarcerated, there was a
00:05:20prospect that in a Flavio government, his
00:05:24father would be pardoned, right?
00:05:27So he would return with a lot of force to the political scene,
00:05:31but all that has now changed, right? And the expectation is
00:05:34that he will remain
00:05:37incarcerated and well, with two of his
00:05:41children out of Brazil. Yes, the two most political, the two
00:05:45most vocal in the
00:05:47public discussion, so his voice is
00:05:51weakened, if not by his wife, right, by
00:05:54Michelle. So surely the
00:06:00right-wing camp expect that
00:06:03Tarcísio will be able to progressively
00:06:05assume this role of opposition
00:06:09leader. But if Bolsonaro manages to maintain
00:06:12his power in the
00:06:15right-wing camp, among his supporters, it is very difficult for
00:06:18him, on his own initiative,
00:06:22to transfer his
00:06:24political capital to Tarcísio, right?
00:06:28And from that perspective, why do you think the Liberal Party, which is Flavio
00:06:32Bolsonaro's party, did not support him in his claim and in
00:06:36his questioning of the integrity of the elections?
00:06:38Eh, they recognized, unlike.
00:06:42They recognized the result, they made criticisms, but
00:06:45they recognized it. Why do you think they didn't support him? People
00:06:49in Brazil who are opponents of
00:06:52Luis Ignacio Lulada Silva, did this claim make sense to them?
00:06:56Not so much given the difference of 4 million
00:06:58votes.
00:07:00Eh, eh, well, first of all,
00:07:03because eh it
00:07:06is a an an an indefensible
00:07:08position, right? That is to say, to say that there was an
00:07:12electoral fraud without any evidence, without any proof,
00:07:16is indefensible. Even the president of the
00:07:19electoral justice and the vice president of the electoral
00:07:22justice, both ministers of the Supreme Court,
00:07:25appointed, nominated by Bolsonaro's father 4
00:07:29or 5 years ago, eh,
00:07:32declared Lula the winner of the
00:07:36elections. So, eh, first of all, because there is no
00:07:40reason, there is no basis to maintain such
00:07:44a position and secondly,
00:07:47because the truth is that the entire right benefited from the election, of course,
00:07:51with the exception, of course, of the
00:07:54presidency, the highest office, it is evident, but
00:07:57his party grew in the
00:08:01Senate, it is a very strong party in the
00:08:03Senate, it grew in the Chamber, it has today a power that
00:08:07has not been seen in a party for about 40 years
00:08:11in Brazil. Of course. And it made many governors
00:08:14in very important states like São Paulo, which
00:08:18is not from the same party but
00:08:21it is, and in fact there are 28 senators,
00:08:24121 deputies,
00:08:28there are seven governors. I ask you what
00:08:31capacity will Luis Ignacio Lula Silva have to
00:08:34govern with a parliament that shifted
00:08:37to the right, with mayoralties also, many of them in
00:08:41the hands of the opposition. With relevant governors
00:08:44as well, is there room for negotiation, right? With the
00:08:48center or with whom? Yes,
00:08:52well, eh, the truth is
00:08:55that the context that emerges from the
00:08:58elections is a difficult context for
00:09:02Lula, no doubt about it, but we must
00:09:06consider, first of all, that he begins his fourth term, he is
00:09:10an extremely experienced politician. Even in the
00:09:13position of president, right? That is,
00:09:16no one comes close to
00:09:20what he has, what he knows from
00:09:23his experience, but and besides that,
00:09:27the truth is that the right, Bolsonarism, grew
00:09:30above the center-right, not
00:09:34center parties as
00:09:37eh he mentioned
00:09:40the centrão. So these
00:09:44parties are interested in forming
00:09:49maintain their strength, to, as it were,
00:09:52isolate the more radical right.
00:09:57the Chamber and the Senate
00:10:00who in a Flavio government probably
00:10:03would not have the political conditions to remain in office in both
00:10:07positions, now they
00:10:10have approached Lula and made
00:10:12the bet on his re-election and surely they will
00:10:16be rewarded for that. Amaro,
00:10:19then I ask you, in terms of
00:10:22management, what will be the keys that will... determine
00:10:25if Lula manages to develop a good government or
00:10:29not, and if he manages to generate a new
00:10:32leadership and transfer that
00:10:35power? Well,
00:10:39eh, first of all, it is almost a consensus today in the
00:10:42Brazilian press and among specialists that we have an economic
00:10:46issue, right? The public
00:10:48debt shows a
00:10:52worrisome evolution, right? Not
00:10:55explosive, because it's not, but worrisome, and
00:10:58that is reflected in interest, very high interest
00:11:02rates, and that harms people, harms
00:11:05the economy. So there is a need to
00:11:09contain spending, expenses, and so
00:11:12he will have to build the political
00:11:16conditions for that after a very tough
00:11:18election. Eh, then I think
00:11:22that Lula's challenge is to find
00:11:25ways to
00:11:28attend to people on issues, on matters
00:11:31that were not or are not part
00:11:34of his history in
00:11:38government, that is, the most
00:11:42evident example is public safety. I close the final
00:11:45minute by asking you the following: When
00:11:49the days have passed for you, what were the keys,
00:11:52besides this digital strategy,
00:11:55Lula's digital army, what were the keys to his
00:11:58success? Well,
00:12:01surely popular mobilization, right? What
00:12:04we say here is that
00:12:07Flavio
00:12:11won the first round and how
00:12:14he took office, right? And that
00:12:16generated fear in people, and Lula's campaign was very successful
00:12:20in
00:12:23towards the unknown, towards the
00:12:27lack of confidence in Flavio's profile,
00:12:29and that generated more
00:12:33mobilization, electoral abstention fell by two
00:12:37points, something
00:12:39immense in Brazil, from the first round to
00:12:43the second round, and in the three weeks of
00:12:46campaigning from the first to the second round, the
00:12:50truth is that the streets filled with people who did not
00:12:54want in government, and that,
00:12:56added to the digital strategy and
00:13:00also to some government actions that Lula
00:13:04took, such as increasing the Bolsa
00:13:07Família, actions for small
00:13:10entrepreneurs, and all that, I think that together
00:13:13these actions
00:13:16managed to achieve an incredible and unprecedented comeback,
00:13:19really, in the history of Brazil.
00:13:23Digital strategy. Directed also by this congressman Andrés Llanones
00:13:27who has already emerged as a minister and even a presidential figure
00:13:31for the future, Amaro Grossi, director of the communication school of the
00:13:34Yetulio Vargas Foundation, thank you very much for joining
00:13:52I have been practicing journalism for 20 years
00:13:56in Mexico City, in the United States, and now in Miami for
00:13:59CNN. CNN América is a multi-platform
00:14:03program where you will get information from all
00:14:07areas that will allow you to understand the world from the angle
00:14:10you are viewing it. In those three hours, you will not only
00:14:14have information from a political and economic perspective,
00:14:17but also health, from a women's
00:14:21perspective, but above all, it is a space where we can have conversation.
00:14:25It is not to polarize, but to integrate
00:14:31excites me most is to inform,
00:14:34inquire, investigate the why of things, go to the bottom of
00:14:38the facts. Here you will see what makes news and everything that
00:14:41impacts your daily life. CNN América with Rebecca
00:14:45Kelly, Monday to Friday on
00:14:47CNN.
00:14:52To understand the world, you need
00:14:55to seek the truth. Let's return to the era when we had to be
00:14:59much more human. That's why we follow the facts,
00:15:02wherever they lead us, no matter how far we have to
00:15:06go, from the internal story, there are new
00:15:09declarations from President Donald Trump, to an external
00:15:13perspective, we delve into
00:17:10And we go to the United States where Flavio Bolsonaro
00:17:13is to analyze, with Cristián Farías, journalist,
00:17:16lawyer, and also analyst of constitutional affairs, the
00:17:19situation of Flavio Bolsonaro, former presidential
00:17:30of Flavio Bolsonaro been received in the United States, from a political,
00:17:33diplomatic point of view? How has it been covered? Is it an issue or not
00:17:37an issue and among whom? It's very interesting because, as
00:17:40you well know, we are in the middle of a political campaign here
00:17:44as well. Next week there are midterm elections, the famous midterms,
00:17:47and well, they have paid attention to the issue, but not so much because many are focused
00:17:51on those elections, and well, yes, the Latino community, Hispanics,
00:17:55the media covering these elections have paid a lot
00:17:59of attention, but what has also attracted a lot of attention are
00:18:02the measures taken by the State Department,
00:18:06led by Marco Rubio, for Flavio
00:18:09Bolsonaro to arrive in this country and reach the United
00:18:13States safe and sound. And in that sense, the political effect that
00:18:17you think it can have,
00:18:20it is seen by Trump's supporters as someone ideologically
00:18:24close to Bolsonaro and therefore they support the
00:18:27decision, and on the other hand it is criticized, right? It
00:18:30doesn't have much relevance. What do you think? It's
00:18:34interesting too, because of course eh the right-wingers here, the
00:18:37MAGA supporters, those who support President Trump and support
00:18:41his allies, of course, they welcome Flavio
00:18:44Bolsonaro with open arms, but it must be emphasized that Flavio Bolsonaro is a person
00:18:48who is being investigated by the justice system
00:18:52of his own country, and it is interesting the contrast when you look at it
00:18:58domestic policy towards migrants, so-called criminals. He has a
00:19:02very harsh policy towards people who are not from this country who
00:19:05have committed crimes, and well, they deport them without even
00:19:09due process, and well, that all this happened so suddenly and so
00:19:13quickly, and that the Department
00:19:16of State, also the Department
00:19:20of Homeland Security, which is responsible for admitting
00:19:24people to this country, that it all happened so fast is like
00:19:27the opposite of how they do things here against undocumented migrants.
00:19:31And would you say that it is a good or a bad
00:19:34news for Trump and why? I draw the parallel because, for
00:19:37example, Miley's support
00:19:41for Flavio Bolsonaro, for some it was good
00:19:44news, but then in the elections, others maintain that no, that it ended up
00:19:48weighing him down, that it was not so good to have him
00:19:51in Brazil in the campaign, eh, some even say they
00:19:55now ask Miley through videos in Argentina
00:19:58to criticize him more, eh,
00:20:02some of Lula's supporters even thanked Miley for the gesture, so the question is whether
00:20:06it's such good news in the context of the midterm elections, in addition
00:20:09to Bolsonaro's arrival. Of course,
00:20:12honestly, I don't think it will have much influence, what it does show is that Trump
00:20:16does favors for his friends, he does it very easily, he has no problem using
00:20:20the state apparatus to grant that type of favors. It must also be remembered
00:20:23that many of the voters here in this country
00:20:26who do matter to Trump, such as the people who
00:20:30live in those states that produce soybean grains,
00:20:33that produce those inputs that are very important for the national
00:20:37economy, eh, many of them look a little
00:20:40dubiously at Argentina because Argentina, I don't know if you
00:20:44covered this issue, there was a certain problem regarding
00:20:48some, some. arrangements that this country made to buy
00:20:54greatly harmed the people who deal with
00:20:57that here, with soybean grains, etc., the farmers, and well, eh, from
00:21:01that point of view, well, these policies towards the outside that
00:21:05Trump has deployed to lower
00:21:09prices here, have not been very well received by the people here, so I don't know
00:21:12if people have that geopolitical view regarding what is happening in
00:21:16Brazil, also with Argentina, eh, but
00:21:19that many people in those states,
00:21:23like the states of Iowa, the states also in
00:21:26Wisconsin, in Michigan, which are those states that
00:21:30Trump won in 2024, but that, eh, this
00:21:33year it seems very possible that the president will lose
00:21:37seats in those states that are considered very
00:21:40reliable for his base and for the Republicans, that anything they
00:21:44do to make people doubt him more, well, this may not go well for him in
00:21:48that aspect. How do you evaluate the tension that
00:21:51could arise diplomatically between the United States
00:21:54and Brazil?
00:21:56Well, there are already many tensions regarding the relationship between
00:22:00the two countries, as is already known through reports made
00:22:04by the New York Times and other media, there has
00:22:07been that that kind
00:22:10of, there is a certain friction between both countries,
00:22:14especially Lula's government, because they have seen how the United
00:22:17States has tried to interfere in their
00:22:21elections by sending
00:22:23State Department personnel who were denied entry,
00:22:27there have been a lot of acts from the United States towards
00:22:31Brazil that further strain the situation. It must
00:22:34also be remembered that
00:22:38the relationship between the two countries regarding tariffs is not
00:22:41very good, tariffs have
00:22:44soared towards Brazil and from Brazil towards the United States,
00:22:47and well, I don't think this will improve the situation, and
00:22:50also remember that there
00:22:54is already a certain precedent regarding the United States
00:22:58granting political asylum to Flavio's brother. He is already here in the United States,
00:23:02he has already been granted political asylum, he is already a legal
00:23:06resident of this country, and it is expected that the process for Flavio Bolsonaro
00:23:09will also be very quick, and as I say, there is
00:23:13that tendency in this country to think that people who jump the line to
00:23:16obtain benefits, especially immigration benefits, are not
00:23:20well-liked here. That Trump
00:23:24I think that will also affect people's perception, especially because Trump came
00:23:28to power promising a firm hand on immigration,
00:23:32but when it comes to people with power, it seems there is no such firm hand.
00:23:35Now there is a third country that has not been mentioned much, and that is
00:23:38Italy, because both brothers have Italian
00:23:42passports, so even if their Brazilian passports
00:23:46were canceled, the truth is that they have another
00:23:51route, so to speak, to resort to. Exactly, that is, they have another
00:23:55route, they also have more relatives who are members
00:23:58of parliament there in Brazil, who were elected, and well, the
00:24:02reality is that the Bolsonaro family has a lot of power. I don't know
00:24:06why taking refuge here in the United States makes much sense
00:24:10politically speaking, I don't know how he can be leader of the
00:24:13opposition in exile or from a distance, and
00:24:17well, the point about Italy is also very good, that is, they have somewhere
00:24:20to go in a way that doesn't make it seem like Trump is doing
00:24:24him favors, and well, we'll see how things
00:24:28unfold, but we also have to see what will happen here in this country
00:24:31with the elections next week, because if the Democrats, the
00:24:34opposition party to Trump, manage to
00:24:38regain control of Congress, they can also conduct
00:24:42investigations through their committees to get
00:24:45to the bottom of the matter and see if there is really another reason, because it must be remembered
00:24:49that many of the things Trump does are not because he is a very
00:24:53good-hearted person, generally there are other
00:24:56things. The New York Times reported today that a Trump
00:25:00advisor, his name is Jason Miller, is very close to the Bolsonaros.
00:25:04Jason Miller is a communications advisor to Donald
00:25:07Trump, and well, from that side we would have to start looking
00:25:11at perhaps what is the relationship that exists between Jason Miller and the Bolsonaros, if there
00:25:14is any business relationship, because
00:25:18as I say, many of the things Trump does often have to do with
00:25:21connections in the economic world, in the business world, and if there is any
00:25:25kind of benefit, quid pro quo, well, there it is, there is
00:25:29a pending issue for Congress to investigate and learn more
00:25:32about it. Cristián Farías, thank you very much for joining
00:25:44from Mexico City.
00:25:47A story can change everything. A look at
00:25:50the reconstruction efforts of a city and the hope of a people
00:25:54determined to rise up, it evolved very quickly and we never thought
00:25:58it would become a category 5, and to understand what
00:26:01is happening, we go with my colleague Ione Molinares to
00:26:05Washington.
00:26:07The explosion, well, we can see the dimension it had, taking away the entire
00:26:11facade. We hear the protagonists, they
00:26:15mocked us as mothers and fathers of the 43,
00:26:19where she lived, a bomb, we are about to board this
00:26:22Mexican Air Force plane bound for Romania
00:26:25to get a complete picture, we are here as
00:26:28migrants to progress and make this country grow, it is big.
00:27:145 minutes, we have five things for you, a podcast with the five
00:27:17most important topics of the day, just ask your
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00:27:41day.
00:27:44Here at CNN, news comes first.
00:27:46I'm going with Yone Molinares to the Capitol,
00:27:50they have already approved the funds for the Department of Homeland
00:27:53Security. When there is a lot at stake, we cut through the noise
00:27:56to clearly inform you about the issues and policies that impact you.
00:28:00From decisions made in Washington
00:28:02to their repercussions throughout
00:28:05the United States, Latin America and the world. At what point
00:28:09are relations with the United States? Relations between the United
00:28:13States and Cuba have always been abnormal. Direct
00:28:16USA is that window through which you can enter the United States
00:28:19and see what is happening in this country. We follow the
00:28:23story from all angles to bring you the
00:28:27facts directly. Groups of pro-immigrants.
00:28:30filed a lawsuit from our studios in Washington, I am
00:28:34Juan Carlos López, join me live on USA from Monday
00:28:38to Friday on CNN.
00:28:41The need to migrate knows
00:28:43no age. Many say they want to reach Mexico
00:28:47City, but others seek to go further
00:28:50north.
00:28:51The Mexican army's anti-drone battalion
00:28:55consists of these types of elements of
00:28:58inhibitors to bring down drones that have become a
00:29:02threat. Chiapas authorities have detected
00:29:05a cattle smuggling point. This
00:29:08is one of the illegal crossing points for cattle going from
00:29:12Central America to Mexico. Thousands of
00:29:15protesting workers in this country left at
00:29:199:30 in the morning from the Angel of Independence. I
00:29:22am in the municipality of Teuchitlán in the Mexican
00:29:25state of Jalisco. Here the discovery was macabre by
00:29:28groups of searchers for disappeared people. What made
00:29:32you come here with the suspicion that your son might be on this
00:29:35ranch? Brazil will begin a new
00:29:38rancho?
00:29:47presidential period, but many are wondering what the new
00:29:51leaders are, we mention on the right or by Bolsonarism
00:29:55to the family itself, Michel, one of the members
00:29:58or perhaps the governor of São Paulo. and on the left by the workers'
00:30:04party, several names, among them,
00:30:07Andrés Llanones, the so-called general who led this digital
00:30:11army of Luis Ignacio Lula da Silva, topics that we will
00:30:15also follow closely in a next global connection for CNN en Español.
00:30:19We are
00:30:31CNN, the world leader in
00:30:34news.
00:30:40Hello, I'm Richard Quest, we navigate. I
00:30:43love traveling the world, that's very
00:30:46good. And I'm not done yet.